Eligibility Argument

This is by Steve Deace:

If you believe both parents have to be natural born to be qualified to be president, then you actually believe Millard Fillmore was the first president and not George Washington. If you believe both parents have to be natural born to be qualified to be president, then Donald Trump is also ineligible because his mother was born in Scotland and became a naturalized citizen, just like Rafael Cruz.

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I’m not here to argue Ted Cruz’s eligibility or ineligibility, it’s just that the passage above was put on Twitter and called “the ultimate birther smackdown.”

Is that the primary issue people have with Ted Cruz’s eligibility, that both parents be a naturalized citizen?

I’m not sure it is, but let’s look at the issue of naturalized parents anyway.

Rafael Cruz, Ted’s father, became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2005, long after Ted was born. Rafael was given political asylum status in Canada in 1961. That was his status when Ted was born in Calgary, in 1970.

Donald Trump’s mother was naturalized in 1942. She gave birth to Donald Trump in 1946, in NYC.

My apologies to Steve Deace, but I’m not seeing the parallel between Trump and Cruz here.

Trump was born to two U.S. citizens in the U.S.

Cruz was born to one U.S. citizen in Canada.

Where’s the “ultimate smackdown”?

34 Comments on Eligibility Argument

  1. For the past few days after I make 1 visit here, when I come back later I cannot get on the site. I get an error 400 bad http request and it says the cookie is too large. It resets the next day, then I can come back for another visit. Until you guys can fix this, I guess I’ll only be coming here 1x a day and reading headlines because if I comment or click on a link is when the problem starts. Anyone else reported this?

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  3. Yeah, I remember when Winston Churchill ran for Pres of US. Hopefully, we can persuade some other quality natural borned people to run in the future, like Prince Albert or Princess Stephanie of Monaco. King Abdullah II of Jordan would be good too.

    All of them were born to US mothers who were citizens so that makes them NBC, right?

    No, it doesn’t. Nor does the tortured 21st Century interpretation of any statutes, which do not amend the Constitution. It says what it says and means what it means, based on THE BEST reasoning available in 1789 to prevent any undue influence by foreign powers & principalities, with exception for those born as British subjects (all the Founders) and became citizens of the new United States after independence.

    No birther here, and not a Constitutional lawyer but the way I read and understand the clause, neither Ted, nor Marco, nor Jindal are eligible for the office, and neither was Obama. Just because that ship has sailed, doesn’t give US license to launch another.

  4. What smackdown? Keace is using Common Core logic.

    The fact that Trump’s parents were both Americans at the time of his birth, and that he was born in NY makes him a natural born citizen.

    You can’t say the same for Cruz.

    Cruz’s father was Cuban.

    The real key is whether Cruz’s mother was an American citizen when he was born in Canada. I don’t know the law for sure, but I believe the parent had to have lived if the USA for so many years before the birth. His mother lived in England and Canada for many years.

    It is also stated, and if the records exist they would be quite damning, the his mother was registered to vote in Canada, which implies she was a Canadian citizen at the time of his birth.

    Those that are using Cruz already know the answer. If , how ever unlikely, he wins the nomination, do not be surprised if the (D) come after him on this, and get a judgement against him.

  5. While I would prefer another course of action, if we are not going to rule the Soetoro presidency null and void and vacate everything he signed, then we have to allow Cruz even though from every angle I view it neither he nor Barry qualify as natural born.
    As to George Washington;
    Anytime a group is created with a rule that only members of the group can hold office in it, there has to be an exception for the first or the group becomes impossible to start.

  6. It was always my understanding that natural born meant at least one of your parents was a citizen AND you were born in the country.

    Rafael was born in Canada, and his father was not a citizen at the time of his birth. He is ineligible.

  7. …If you believe both parents have to be natural born to be qualified to be president…

    Deace offers a distressingly unimaginative straw man “smackdown” as I haven’t heard anyone argue that candidate’s parents had to be natural born citizens, only the candidate. The rest of it is that both parents have to be citizens (either natural born or naturalized), and that the candidate’s birth take place in the US. The birthplace of the parents is irrelevant, just their citizenship status at the time of the candidate’s birth.

    Aside: Gotta be careful differentiating “naturalized” and “natural born” because they are not the same thing.

  8. “Is that the primary issue people have with Ted Cruz’s eligibility, that both parents be a naturalized citizen?”
    (emphasis mine)

    NO. The primary issue people have with Ted Cruz’s eligibility, that at least one parent be a natural born citizen.

    I hope no one here is INTENTIONALLY confusing the two.

  9. The issue with Cruz is that he held citizenship in another country. The framers of the Constitution were clear that the parents and the candidate could NOT hold divided loyalty to another government.

    If Cruz’ parents didn’t want him to hold Canadian citizenship they would have registered his birth with the American embassy. Did they? Those records are sealed.

    If superlawyer Cruz didn’t want Canadian citizenship he would have renounced it as soon as he learned he had it – certainly when he first applied for a passport.

  10. Barry Soetoro was a citizen of another country. He was either legally adopted and made Kenyan, or was born there and always was. The exact situation is VERY murky.
    There is also zero evidence that Barry ever legally changed his mane from Soetoro, but we do know that he never gave up his Kenyan citizenship.
    We have two choices. have the supreme court vacate Barry’s entire in office, or accept that the rules have changed.
    I know the Trump voters will want to go the rule change way.;)

  11. I am finding this site to be more and more unmanageable on my phone. More ads all the time…can’t get back to page after reading comments and so on. No other site has this problem for me.

  12. I find the site works much better since the ad script was changed away from being an overlay.
    The only issue I encounter is the text box being slow and pausing sometimes, making proofreading an absolute requirement.

  13. Hey BFH…it looks like problem may be cleared up now. I’ve managed to go back & forth between several posts now and haven’t seen that error again. I’ll let you know if it happens again. And thanks for actually caring. There’s a couple of other sites I’ve reported problems to and nobody did anything about it. There was this one guy who would change his type color to bright yellow in a paragraph that went to a supporting link. It was so bad trying to read yellow type on white background and with him not giving a shit I had to stop going there because that shit hurts my eyes.

    Keep up the great work here…I love this site.

  14. This issue died a natural death a while back but Trump’s crumbling Tower will ensure it’s resurrection.

    The National Enquirer smear didn’t have legs so it’s back to bullshit technicality arguments that will go nowhere but…look a squirrel!

  15. Pboid.
    We are working hard every day to change the mobile experience.
    We have a new network and are working through it.

    iOTWreport is taking a YUGE financial hit.
    But we’ll get it right.

  16. COD,

    I’m using “naturalized” because Steve Deace is trying to compare Cruz and Trump like it is Apples to Apples.

    Yes, Cruz’s mother is a natural born citizen.
    His father was not.
    So who is the “naturalized” parent on Cruz’s side? No one.
    Deace is dead wrong.
    Cruz’s father was a Cuban exile with asylum status in Canada when Cruz was born IN CANADA.

    Trump’s mother was a naturalized citizen of the U.S> when Trump was born in NYC.

    Deace is the one who introduced the “naturalized” language into the Cruz argument when it does not apply at all.
    No one was naturalized in the Cruz side.

    So, who is “intentionally” muddying the waters?
    I’d say it’s Deace.

  17. Loco,

    I’m bringing it up because this Steve Deace character brought it up with the STUPIDEST argument to date.

    Herr duuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrr , “if Cruz isn’t eligible Trump isn’t because,,herrr durrrrr it’s the same exact situation.”

    (Takes finger out of nose and eats the booger.)

    Seriously, I’m not arguing that Cruz is ineligible. I think Cruz is eligible.
    I’m pointing out the absolute idiocy of this dope.

    He can’t really be this stupid, can he?
    It’s either he hates Trump so much his judgement is impaired,
    or he loves Cruz so much his judgement is impaired.

    And then we have the retweeting asshats. “Ya!! BURNNNN!” EPIC smackdown.

    Shut up, idiots.

    How the hell does this idiot have a radio show? Because the retweeters are his idiot followers, that’s how.
    Deace makes conservatives look stupid.

    Trump was born in America, and his mother was a naturalized citizen.

    Cruz was born in Canada, and his father was a Cuban with asylum status in Canada.

    Same thing. derrrrrrrrr.

  18. Deace also tries to slip in that Rafael Cruz was naturalized, “just like Trump’s mother.”
    Ya, when Ted was a grown adult.

    Same thing.. Herr durrrr.

  19. “…something to hide.” Why, oh why, has Cruz sealed his records?

    One thing I cannot stand is the “technical” win. It runs absolutely counter to that superior aspect of law — the spirit of it. The letter of the law almost always favors those who seek to skirt the intent of the law. The letter of the law is the secret handshake, the magic bullet, of lawyers.

  20. Donald Trump’s mother was naturalized in 1942. She gave birth to Donald Trump in 1946, in NYC.

    Candidate has to be born 10 years after parent’s naturalization.
    Lil Marco has 3 years on the lil pecker.

  21. If all that Ted Cruz had to do to lay claim to his US citizenship through his mother, was to show a certified copy of her birth certificate and a copy of his Canadian birth certificate … but it is much more complex than that. She either had to apply on his behalf when he was a minor, or he would have to apply as an adult. If neither had applied – what damn “proof” would there even be that Ted Cruz held US citizenship? A simple waving of his moms birth certificate would not be sufficient.

    Until his claim to US citizenship could be established as VALID, he was simply a Canadian citizen who had an option to dual citizenship. How would he have been able to get a US passport? Just show his Canadian birth certificate and his mothers birth certificate? Is that seriously all it would take? Come to me, I have things to sell you. It is a process, which includes many forms, citizenship of the US parent must be proven to be in good standing, the US parent has the burden to submit a lot of documents, and documentation of their whereabouts for X amount of time, etc.

    Fact is that Cruz was still a valid citizen of Canada until just two years ago – AFTER he had been elected to the US senate. Fact is no one has ever seen any document that demonstrates Ted Cruz or his mom had taken the steps necessary to become, under the law, a US citizen. As he was not native born, his US citizenship depended on meeting standards under US law.

    In any event, the past thirty years Dems, with a smattering of Repub support, have made many attempts to amend the restrictions on presidential eligibility to allow for those NOT born on US soil to qualify. This strongly argues that it is a well known fact that one is REQUIRED to be born in the US.

    Birtherism is not a factor re Cruz. THAT term came about because some doubted the PLACE OF BIRTH of obama. They felt he was ineligible both because he was born outside of the US, and was a dual citizen. We know Cruz was not born in the US.

  22. After B. Hussein Obola the question is forever moot.

    Any dog-eared, cock-sucking, mongrel of a moslem puke bastard, drug-addled, moslem, marxist motherfucker – or anyone else, for that matter – can be Preznit of the (former) United States of America. As the Republic is Dead, we now accept any and every crook, interloper, grifter, liar, thief, murderer, and traitor.

    Welcome to the New Amerika!

    izlamo delenda est …

  23. I agree with Tim. After 8 years of a commie loving Kenyan muslum, I think that argument is pretty much out the window now!

  24. 2 State court argued all the birther orgy arguments;

    PA https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2755257/PA-TedCruzruling.pdf

    then
    NJ https://www.scribd.com/doc/308271654/NJ-Judge-Ruling-Ted-Cruz-Eligibility-4-12-2016

    No Technicalities as other courts have done.

    Both Judges independently ruled on all the birther arguments and ruled Cruz is a Natural Born Citizen Constitutionally Eligible for PotUS. ruling affirmed by Supreme in States.

    read’em and weep.

    on to the next tin foil orgy..

  25. Deace is talking out of his ass …..

    US Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5
    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    adopted in 1789… looks like old George was eligible after all

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