Mike Pence is swampier than I gave him credit for.
Robert Barnes Gives Analysis on Capitol Protest and Mike Pence
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Everything is always clearer in hindsight, but two strikes for me were that he could never shake that wooden delivery and his preamble to almost everything he ever said was “I am a Christian, a (can’t remember), and a conservative. In that order!” Sham-wow.
….I don’t understand why anyone is surprised about Pence. He was basically forced on Trump specifically BECAUSE the swamp would not accept his nomination without Pence there to keep an eye on them. And as for his “Christian convictions”, anyone who saw how quickly he surrendered his “convictions” to a small group of noisy homosexuals over gay “marriage” knows that his “Christianity” rests very lightly upon him, and as the V
Bible says;
“A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.”
James 1:8
…I told everyone what was going to happen when Pence had to choose between doing the right thing and doing the Swamp thing, but everyone just came back with how great he was and what a Christian he was, and even that day he had just finished lying to the President a few hours earlier.
…so YOU all can be shocked and surprised if you want.
….this was never anything but expected behavior to ME…
You don’t become a congresscritter (or a Governor) without being part of the swamp….not even obongo got there without Cook County’s blessing; better we found out before we invested any hope in his WH bid in the future.
…and I suspected something was up when after a few months of reporting on the Covid stuff, he completely disappeared and let that ass, Fauci, take over HIS job of directing the WH Covid team. MIA
…and what a “leader” this guy is. Here he is leading with his butt in cowardice to the floor during the brief moment when it seemed his treason would have a quick and well-earned payback. And yes its a long link but its still only one click, the Swamp tries pretty hard to hide these heroic images you know.
…an ACTUAL leader would have stayed on his feet so he could fight, run, or talk fast as the occasion demanded, maybe even led others to safety. Even just an ordinary man would do that of he had any testosterone at all.
…but no, there’s little Mikey, crumpled to the floor in fear of the consequences of his own actions, waiting for someone ELSE to save his bacon after he HIMSELF burnt it…
…Coward. Traitor. Not just to the President, but to his Oath, his Nation, and his God.
He disgusts me.
He SHOULD disgust EVERYONE…
data:image/jpeg;base64,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
^ ^ ^
Biden’s inaugural speech leaked….
This guy is so phony he’s a caricature politician. The silver gray hair, white shirts and stiff demeanor. He looks like a Hollywood creation.
I never liked or trusted him as I’ve posted repeatedly.
Nothing is more loathsome than a backstabber.
I hope this puts an end to any future for this asshole!
^ WTF?
Shade, how does one access the image you referenced?
Boehnerdict Ryan
JANUARY 11, 2021 AT 8:38 AM
“Shade, how does one access the image you referenced?”
Oops,sorry, that 100% didn’t work. Try this…
https://kubrick.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ap21006736482604.jpg?resize=660:*
…I miss the EDIT button…
…and what a “leader” this guy is. Here he is leading with his butt in cowardice to the floor during the brief moment when it seemed his treason would have a quick and well-earned payback. And yes its a long link but its still only one click, the Swamp tries pretty hard to hide these heroic images you know.
…an ACTUAL leader would have stayed on his feet so he could fight, run, or talk fast as the occasion demanded, maybe even led others to safety. Even just an ordinary man would do that of he had any testosterone at all.
…but no, there’s little Mikey, crumpled to the floor in fear of the consequences of his own actions, waiting for someone ELSE to save his bacon after he HIMSELF burnt it…
…Coward. Traitor. Not just to the President, but to his Oath, his Nation, and his God.
He disgusts me.
He SHOULD disgust EVERYONE…
….sorry about the mess I made MJA, I wouldn’t feel bad if you deleted it, it didn’t look so bad BEFORE I posted it, sorry again…
I never understood why anyone trusted Pence. Remember he was trashing Trump before Trump picked him. He claims to be a Christian yet as governor he bowed down to the gay lobby.
Now there’s all kinds of shit out there that he was a big time queer in his younger days and never quit being queer, just started raping little boys.
VIVA FREI and BARNES… I watched that live last night. I love those guys. REALLY looking forward to Viva and Dershowitz debate on TUESDAY this week. I think Barnes will be there too!
Remember how all of us Christians were snookered into voting for Jimmy Carter in 1976 because it was the Christian thing to do. And don’t ask me why I voted for him again in 1980, I was brain dead then and had just graduated from college with a degree in Social Work, so what does that tell you. Christian phonies are the worst, a Pastor friend of mine calls them Christian jerks.
Supernightshade; With a crypto background, I thought you had inserted a coded message before decode.
Full Auto
JANUARY 11, 2021 AT 9:04 AM
“Supernightshade; With a crypto background, I thought you had inserted a coded message before decode.”
…yes, if you run it through a double transportation cipher, it says “SNS IS AN IDIOT POSTER”…
…sorry again, everyone…
Wasn’t he supposed to be like a cigar store Indian?
And I bet the lying backstabbing asshole will be the first to start crying for campaign donations to “stop” the Communists from enacting their agendas.
Much like King George I (HW Bush) was forced upon Reagan to keep him in check, this cuck was forced upon PRESIDENT TRUMP and we the people to keep us from enjoying too much liberty. I will be surprised if there isn’t a cabinet post waiting for him, because I doubt if he could be elected to any public office after his poor performance last week. I hope he enjoys the quiet anonymity that retirement will bring him. Unfortunately, we will be footing the bill for that too.
pence, keep sucking chicom/gro-bama/gro-biden ****
First of all, shame on all you “so called” Christians for attacking Pence’s faith. Nothing pleases Satan more and pleases God less than when Christians stupidly go after their own because they disagree with them politically. When you do this, your own faith should be questioned.
Also, from the video;
“Some degree of frustration should have been expected. You can’t tell people the courts are closed, Congress is closed, State Legislatures are closed, we can’t hear your evidence about election fraud, and [maybe] we stole your vote too, what do you think people are going to do?”.
This is the exact same empty rhetoric that justified all the riots, the mayhem, the destruction done by the ANTIFA and BLM thugs, “Riots are the voice of the unheard, when black people are systemically being killed by the police and disfranchised by their own government everyday of their lives, what do you think they are going to do?”.
No conservative or GOPer , whatever you call yourself, can ever occupy the high ground anymore. We used to be the party of adults, of reason, of comity, and of respect, not anymore, we are now just like the other side, the party of ,”Riots are the voice of the unheard”.
I like to call fake Christians like Pence “over pious worms.” Gee. I wonder who helped me come up with that rollicking description? LOL!
BTW. The ONLY THING left for Judas Pence to do is to hang himself. 🙂
SNS, only you could get away with that lol. If it had been Anonymous…
Pence probably has an extra $100M in PPP funds, so he can start his own foundation. Seems like the swampy thing to do.
SNS definately does wax eloquent – even so with that link bloop.
@rich
Who else to call out the hypocritical coward who calls themselves a Christian and hides from criticism and the truth using the mask of ‘Christ’ follower in name only? Pence does not behave nor conduct himself as a Christian, he holds himself as a high and mighty man of God but all I see is a tee totalling little weasel who judges Trump for his speck when he has a huge log in his own eye socket.
Ouch, Richard Taylor…but true. I defended Pence, and I am really disappointed in him, but no one can know why a man does what he does without walking a mile in his shoes. And really, it takes a special kind of person to be Trump’s VP. I still believe Pence did as well as anyone else would have, and certainly “did no harm” as some malevolent Deeper might have done.
As for the crowds, I avoid them. Too much opportunity to be stampeded or led by Judas Goats. There is always this lament that conservatives are too much the individualists, and thus cannot be mobilized effectively like the communal-minded leftists. I say that out individualism and self-reliance will be our strength in the coming years, and the massive crowds Trump gathered will be looked back at with pride, but also with the understanding that this was not our natural state, and our reformation under duress has already begun.
chuffed-beyond-words
JANUARY 11, 2021 AT 10:01 AM
…don’t bother with that guy, Chuffed, he’s a plant.
^It still makes me pissed off, plant or no, that someone has the gall to try and bring up Christianity as a cudgel when Pence is a horrid example of it and his entire character has been exposed.
LMAO!!!! SNS don’t worry about it.
I only cut away 3/4 of it because WDS’ comment was great. lol
^^ “…Nothing pleases Satan more and pleases God less than when Christians stupidly go after their own because they disagree with them politically. When you do this, your own faith should be questioned.”
I’m sorry, but just because he ‘identifies’ as a Christian does not mean that I am automatically yoked to him. Nor do I agree with your assessment, that because I might consider myself different than him, that I ‘should be questioned.’
Scary stuff going on there.
Be careful you might be near an edge.
@chuffed-beyond-words, I’ll respond to you, SNS is just a waste of time, he is totally unable to craft a cogent argument, all he does is call people names. Insults is not an argument , but it does show the rest of us how unprepared you are for debate.
You said he does not act of behave like a Christian, how so? Specifics please.
As for the rest, you are questioning his faith based only on your opposition to his political belies, honestly, does this make sense to you?
SNS, Rich Taylor has always presented reasoned comments here IMO. Some my be contrarian, and may annoy, but they are in good faith. And not Anonymous , AFAIK. I will let him speak to that possibility if he wishes.
I have seen his comments in other forums—at least I think it’s the same Rich Taylor—and he has a consistent conservative philosophy. I do not consider him a plant or troll. I do not know him, but that is my opinion. And he’s not my sock, if that’s what you’re thinking ; )
@MJA, when you applaud gutless behavior like what SNS does, it shows all the commenters that you don’t want a serious blog with robust discussion, all you want is an echo chamber that parrots not well thought out ideas.
If you disagree with what I write, attack it on it’s merits, don’t do a SNS and attack the writer or attack his faith because he disagrees with you politically.
SNS called Pence a coward, to me it is clear evidence of cowardice when you disagree with someone but all you got in your quiver is insults.
@ billyhall2006
“I’m sorry, but just because he ‘identifies’ as a Christian does not mean that I am automatically yoked to him.”
Of course not, but be a man, attack on the merits of his actions, don’t question his faith, that is just weasily and undignified.
“Nor do I agree with your assessment, that because I might consider myself different than him, that I ‘should be questioned.’”
That was meant strictly in the context of questioning someone;s faith, which as I’ve said in other threads, nobody should do.
IF you don’t like how Pence acted in the performance of his VP duites, go after him in that theater, don’t question his faith, his patriotism his duties as a father or husband, or anything else, it’s weak and cowardly.
@richtaylor
we’ll question that little weasel in any way that we want.
even the bible questions people’s faith who claim they are christians. have you not read it?
if you don’t like what we do, tough for you. you are a cowardly little twit.
> Of course not, but be a man, attack on the merits of his actions, don’t question his faith, that is just weasily and undignified.
WTF?
‘Be a man’ ???
I don’t question his faith. I don’t question anyone’s faith. I actually often encourage it.
What I do question is your assigning of my allegiance to another because they identify as something that I might have sympathies for.
And the ‘be a man’ thing’- you need better bait than that. You ain’t gonna be able to ‘craft a cogent argument’ if you begin by addressing others like that. ‘
Sometimes Christians make poor decisions. This was one of those times.
Thanks, Thirdtwin.
Years ago I was drawn to this blog because both the writers and commenters shared opinions which I held, it provided a forum for like minded folks to come together and converse, something that was lacking in the typical SM platforms.
But lately an underbelly, unsavory and alarming, has been revealed. If you don’t tow the party line, if you disagree in any manner, the usual suspects of attacks dogs will go after you. Mind you, they won’t attack what you say, they will go after your character, your commitment to “the cause”, even your patriotism and your faith.
I expect this myopic pugilistic type of conduct at the lib blogs, they all toady to each other contented in their shared inability to possess an original thought, but not here.
Thirdtwin
JANUARY 11, 2021 AT 10:23 AM
…I appreciate you Thirdtwin and you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your own correspondence, but over time I have come to a different opinion and Chuffed has a right to know what she’s dealing with.
I’ve said all I’m going to say to that guy and about that guy apart from that. Plenty of history if you want to dig. I don’t even read his comments because I do not respect trolls or give plants anything to take to their employers, so I can only imagine what he says about me, although I’m quite sure its insulting and cuttingly witty, because he IS smart, he just uses it to help divide and conquer for the other side.
Do as you will though. I’m done with him.
rich taylor, did God leave his throne and make you who decides what a Christian can judge? Nothing has ever infuriated more than someone preaching Christians are not to judge, bs, the Bible tells us to judge them by their fruits. God told his people to leave people. Disciples were told to avoid people. Jesus preached on the hyprocrites. We warned against false prophets.
What is also funny to me is always someone wanting to preach at Christians always judge us by calling us “so called Christians.”
Sorry, Pence has not produced any fruit that I have seen that is not rotten since even before he was pushed on Trump, then all the backstabbing he did after he was pushed on him, then he stabbed the country in the back. Not to mention if even 1/4 of the stuff coming out about his past is true, that certainly proves he’s a false prophet.
So I have no plank in my eye, I didn’t stab anyone in the back, certainly not my country.
@billyhall2006
“‘Be a man’ ???”
You are taking offense where none was intended. SNS has time and time again attacked Pence’s faith because he disagreed with Pence’s actions politically.
“What I do question is your assigning of my allegiance to another because they identify as something that I might have sympathies for.”
What do you think ,”Of course not” meant in my above comment? There was zero assigning of allegiance, that’s what,”of course not” means. You can disagree with someone’s actions, statements, conduct, behavior, all fair game, but you should never question someone’s faith in those disagreements since only that person and God knows for sure.
….Aw C’mon?….a dispute between fellow commentators and no-one has threatened to “rag doll” the other? Called them a pussy or an idiot?….Geez, maybe Biden really is gonna bring us all together and heal us after all….Go get yourself a Norco prescription and let your inner ass hat fly!….
@SNS, don’t say you don’t read my comments, we know you are lying, and you should read them because unlike you I do not insult. We are like minded in many ways but you need to improve your game and I’m trying to help you in that regard.
“Plenty of history if you want to dig.”
No, you made the accusation, you provide the history, you need to show the history that bolsters your claim.
“I do not respect trolls or give plants anything to take to their employers,”
There you go again. Have you not one single argument that you can provide except for insults and ad hominums?
“I’m done with him”
Of course you are you are unequipped to deal with anyone on a serious adult level.
> “…What do you think ,”Of course not” meant in my above comment?”
And it was followed by a big ‘but’
And what do you think of calling another, such as you posted in replies to me, “just weasily and undignified” and “weak and cowardly.”
I will ‘be a man’ and not stoop to such indignities. lol
And you complain about not being able to have a “cogent argument” here.
Gee, I wonder why that would be.
@ORWW
“rich taylor, did God leave his throne and make you who decides what a Christian can judge?”
A Christian can judge all he wants but a Christian should not call into question another Christian’s faith just because he (or she) disagrees politically. I have been consistent with this sentiment through out and I think you knew this but still misconstrued what I said with the canard or ,”Who decides what Christians can judge”.
“Sorry, Pence has not produced any fruit that I have seen that is not rotten since even before he was pushed on Trump, then all the backstabbing he did after he was pushed on him, then he stabbed the country in the back. Not to mention if even 1/4 of the stuff coming out about his past is true, that certainly proves he’s a false prophet.”
A lot to unpack there. You, and many here, don’t like that he did not do what Trump wanted, OK, how does this reflect on his faith?
You mentioned stuff from his past, what stuff?
Nobody is attacking Pence’s christian faith! We’re attacking his phony veneer of christian faith.
@gin blossom
“We’re attacking his phony veneer of christian faith.”
Semantics, what is being repeated here , plain and simple is that Pence is not a good Christian simply because he did not go along with Trump’s scheme to subvert the Constitution.
Pence has been an unwavering stalwart supporter of Trump. Every single controversy, some of Trump’s own making, bar none Pence has supported him, backed him and defended him.
There is no doubt in my mind that Pence agonized about this decision, prayed about and seeked God’s guidance in doing the right thing. He did the right thing as he saw that right thing to be yet he gets labeled a false prophet with a phony veneer, sorry, I just don’t think that’s fair.
@Rich:
I’m not going to question Pence’s faith. He is a politician, though. As a lifelong resident of Indiana, I did vote for him twice; both times because he seemed to be a better option (by far) than the Dem, although I wouldn’t have voted for them. I cheered his signing of the original RFRA bill on liberty – not Christian – grounds. I was extremely disappointed when he walked that back. When he did that, it also caused me some concern as to his intestinal fortitude.
The actions he took last week sealed the deal for me – he can do whatever he wants but I’ll never support him again. Anything he publicly supports I will scrutinize closely before joining him in supporting.
I don’t condone the violence that took place last Wednesday. In fact, people much more versed in those things than I am are saying it was a false flag op. This interview with Michael Yon was very illuminating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIeKj7fZ8U
Laying all of the “Christian” talk aside concerning Pence, it seems he’s much more of a swamper than many of us realized. We’re very upset that he would do what he did which definitely went against what President Trump either expected or wanted. Not warning his “boss” certainly was despicable. But I will leave all the judging of his faith to others. He just seems to be another politician, and that’s disappointing enough.
Pence is the POS that set up Flynn for the swamp. Let’s not forget that.
I think the vid and Barnes in particular summed up the the underhanded nature of Pence.
If you think he’s a good christian then roll with it.
I think he’s a snake.
chuffed-beyond-words – great comments.
Old Racist White Woman – Exactly! You effectively and succinctly made an excellent, accurate point.
Good comment, TommyBoy, I agree with just about all of that.
I think some folks confuse where allegiances should be when a man of faith is also a politician. We are not a theocracy but a Democratic Republic and by definition secular. There are no religious tests nor is embracing a religion required. A Christian has a duty, self imposed duty, to live by Jesus’ commandments, to adhere to the duties of obedience, to prayer, to forgiveness, to humility and to diligence.
A politician has a duty to serve ALL the people, even those that do not subscribe to his religious beliefs. A church is not the same thing as a nation. And believe it or not, 2 equally dedicated serious Christians can come to a difference of opinions when it comes to politics. I want my politicians to be circumspect, calculating and well informed in all decisions, but ultimately, what’s best of the people as a whole should be the goal.
@Rich, I agree with you. It’s hard to get my emotions to submit to my reason sometimes, especially in the last five days. In my view, Pence acted more like John Roberts than John Quincy Adams last week. I guess time will tell who Mr. Pence actually is serving. I hate that our country’s leadership and infrastructure is SO corrupted that virtually anyone who works/serves there is suspect. I’d really like to trust our leadership on all levels but they increasingly give my fewer reasons to do so.
@Brad: thanks – I forgot to put that in my original post.
I am not calling his SALVATION into question- but how he presents himself.
If he was truly a good man, he would have let the public and his constituents know way before that he wasn’t going to support any challenge, instead he cowered, rubbed elbows with Pelosi, accepted a literal gift of a coin or pendant from senators before his political betrayal. Not a good look.
And then Pence expects fellow Christians to defend him based purely on the claim that he is one. Which in itself is UNCHRISTLIKE. It is the job of fellow Christians to call out such bad witness, to allow his lukewarm testimony to stand is an affront to God.
Not Trump, Trump is a man, but Pence likes to project himself as this man of morals and of the people, when he so largely betrayed both and allowed MAGA folks to become disheartened and lash out when he could have prevented or softened the blow with wisdom and honesty.
Tldr, Pence is a coward and a stumbling block.
@chuffed-beyond-words
“he would have let the public and his constituents know way before that he wasn’t going to support any challenge”
Is it possible that before acting he wanted to make sure what the law said, precedents, Constitutional scholars and maybe even pray about it before making his decision?
I’ve mentioned before how prevalent it is, even here on this blog, to ascribe the absolute worst motives to any action or statement possible, where a more objective charitable heart would say ,”Yeah, maybe me meant that instead”.
“And then Pence expects fellow Christians to defend him based purely on the claim that he is one.”
There is no evidence that Pence is doing that, I’m certainly not doing that. Those not happy with his actions should not defend him, I’m just say that his faith should be off the table when judging a politician.
“It is the job of fellow Christians to call out such bad witness, to allow his lukewarm testimony to stand is an affront to God.”
Um, no, I addressed that in an earlier comment. His Christian duty is separate from his secular politician’s duty. Him not doing what you want him to do as VP is not being a “bad witness”, you may say he is being a bad VP or a bad conservative, but his faith should not be part of the equation.
“when he so largely betrayed both and allowed MAGA folks to become disheartened and lash out”
So you are putting the repulsive despicable behavior of rioting, storming the capital and destroying everything in sight on Pence, really?
Christian or not, Pence didn’t do the right thing. Period.
There is no question but that he had the duty to draw the line and hold it on election fraud. The evidence was there — or at the very least it hadn’t been ALL heard.
From Revelation 21:8
English Standard Version
“But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, utheir portion will be in vthe lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
This is speaking directly to the acts of spiritual cowardice committed by believers, not unbelievers. It is so because God also tells us in His Word to be warriors against evil and to run toward it, not to shy away from unpleasantness and not to turn a blind eye to it in order to save our own skin.
Micheal Pence did D. All of the Above. He had not just a duty to uphold the Constitution, but an even bigger obligation to uphold the Truth. He did neither, and instead chose to go the lawyers’ route of weasel words and technicality.
I don’t have the comparison here and now, but the proforma script read out by each of the VPs before the accounting of the electors was intentionally changed so that Pence and the Congress could skirt the legality of there being other (Trump) electors presented by the contested states. He flat out lied to the American people with his act of treason. Too strong? Then what else can you call it? It wasn’t an oversight, it wasn’t an accident.
And for anyone interested: Here is a good commentary on rebuking a fellow Christian.
https://www.gotquestions.org/rebuke-believer.html
Pence has the added burden of having placed himself squarely in the public Christian eyes of this country and the world as a Godly man. He made it a cornerstone of his persona and I dare say he used his Christianity as a means of attracting votes, too. He merits a double portion of rebuke from all Christians.
@Abogail: Like most Masons, Pence talks One God but in truth worships as a polytheist.
“Tldr, Pence is a coward”
Some might say he exhibited incredible courage in listening to what his boss wanted, what most of his supporters wanted, but instead of blindly following orders, he studied all the issues and came to a different conclusion as to what the Constitution required. Then, in the face of nationwide criticism, derision, and hatred he did what he thought was the right thing to do. Knowing he would be vilified, he followed his conscience, not the proclamations of the mob.
AA
From your own link;
“we should first examine our own motives. First Corinthians 16:14 says, “Let everything be done in love.””
Calling someone a traitor, a coward, this is hardly “done in love” is it?
Also from your link;
“Jesus gave clear instructions for handling situations in which a brother or sister is caught up in a sin”
Which negates your entire link, not that it is not good stuff, it is, but it’s not pertinent to what we are discussing here. We are not discussing sin, but the actions that Pence took on the House floor the other day. Doing his job of counting and certifying the electoral votes is not sinning.
Like I said above, several times now, his Christian duties are separate from his VP duties. You may not like that Pence did not do what his boss wanted and contest the whole process, but it certainly was not a sin in the conventional sense.
First off, the “election” was a farce.
In the event of one or two instances of fraud, they may be overlooked.
In the event of massive, consistent, organized fraud, the “election” must be declared invalid – and that is the case in point.
If someone put an ounce of shit in a half-gallon of ice cream, would you eat it?
Hell no. Throw the whole thing out and start over – with proper safeguards – picture ID, citizenship, thumbprint on the registration along with the signature.
Why the hurry? Why is America being given a bum’s rush?
There’s too much shit in THIS ice cream.
And, as an aside, everything brought up by a politician is fair game.
izlamo delenda est …
Rich Taylor,
You’re becoming tedious.
Not only tedious, but just plain wrong. Read the Bible and then get back to me on this, Rich Taylor.
I didn’t cherry pick scripture to prove *my* point. It’s in there. Go read it. Many chapters, many verses.
The only thing Trump said publicly about what he wanted Pence to do, was to “do the right thing.” He wasn’t coerced by anyone except his former friends in the Congress. He’s thinking of his political career going forward, not the nation.
The United States of America is a Constitutional Representative Republic, not Democratic. Any banana “republic” can be democratic. Despite the kabuki theater fraud leftist have used to attempt to destroy this country, the righteous origins of The United States of America stand.
Also, Christian theocracy is absolutely part of our national foundation and identity. Our U.S. Constitution, Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights are based on Christian morality influenced by the Holy Bible. In addition, read any U.S. state constitution for further proof.
Christians are mandated to be involved politically, by the fact Christians are not only called by God to submit to our political officials, 1 Peter 2:13-20, but also be aware of the political condition nationally – good and bad. All politicians are under God’s authority and will face punishment for causing harm. Proverbs 16:12, Proverbs 28:2-26.
Therefore, being a Christian and a politician requires even more accountability. These roles are not in opposition to each other. Christian politicians should be inspiring all people by being a good example of
of a government leader, (1 Timothy 3:1-5), who knows Christ and supports everything that helps create a Godly society.
BTW, If you pay taxes you’re involved politically, no matter who you are. Romans 13:6-7
Pence can absolutely be judged by his actions. Prior to being Vice President or any association with Pres. Trump, Pence’s actions, some mentioned in this post, show some of his priorities support non-Christian doctrine, that hurt everyone affected by those policies regardless of religious affiliations.
The Trump Presidency has exposed the true nature of Pence. Pence is hypocritical and deceitful. He has Judas type character flaw that is contrary to anything Christian.
Christians should pray for Pence and he needs to repent for his actions and get right with God – the only reset Pence should be concerned about. James 5:16.
Thank you, 99th. I am lacking the patience today to do the look ups. I appreciate your doing so. And I hope no offense if you knew them on the top of your head. 🙂
@AA
“I didn’t cherry pick scripture to prove *my* point. It’s in there. Go read it. Many chapters, many verses.”
And yet your own link contradicts what you say. Jesus was talking about sin, Pence doing his job is not sinful. Would you like to provide another link, one that better supports your position?
@99th Squad Leader
“Also, Christian theocracy is absolutely part of our national foundation and identity. Our U.S. Constitution, Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights are based on Christian morality influenced by the Holy Bible. In addition, read any U.S. state constitution for further proof.”
All true, no one is saying otherwise. But we do not have a religious test to hold office. An atheist, a Muslim, even a Rastafarian can become president, and whatever that president does, he should not have his religion thrown at him for doing a “secular” job.
“. All politicians are under God’s authority and will face punishment for causing harm. Proverbs 16:12, Proverbs 28:2-26.”
Not to nitpick but Kings are not elected and have no obligation to do the will of the people so that verse is meaningless. As for the second, that could very easily be used as validation for Pence because according to his way of thinking, he was following the law.
“These roles are not in opposition to each other.”
Not in opposition, but separate, distinct.
“1 Timothy 3:1-5”
Pence has done all those things.
“Pence can absolutely be judged by his actions”
Of course, who claimed otherwise?
“Christians should pray for Pence and he needs to repent for his actions and get right with God”
You are assuming that he is not right with God now.
Abigail Adams, you’re welcomed. The Holy Spirit gets the credit. Have to admit, it did take some research for some of those scripture references. Wish I knew more by heart. No offense taken – not an issue.
Some have such a lack of knowledge – Christian and Non-Christian. It’s crucial God’s Word is known and applied correctly, ASAP, when Christianity is questioned.
BTW, absolutely agree with your comments. Can relate to your frustration, because you just want people to know the truth – sometimes they just don’t get it, or trust their own understanding in error.
Pence is accountable for all his actions and they are a direct reflection of his lukewarm Christian faith.
Not a pretty picture – Revelation 3:15-16, Matthew 16:26 and 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Rich Taylor, appreciate your considerate effort to support your point of view, but there is just sooo much you don’t understand.
Praying the Lord opens your eyes to His truth.
99th Squad Leader, thanks, I will never turn down the offer to have someone pray for me.
And you have my assurance that no matter how much we disagree on things political, I will never call into question your relationship with your creator, like so many here have done regarding Pence and his salvation.
Thanks, Rich Taylor. Actually, I welcome those who would question my faith, because it will confirm I truly know Christ.
Also, I enjoy a good debate.
Rich Taylor, I didn’t read anything here — or just didn’t see it — anyone questioning Pence’s assurance of salvation. Except that for a Christian to willfully sin — as Pence did — and not to repent of it (and not simply a quick confession and mea culpa to God), is wrong. Pence’s relationship with God is his and his alone, but when Christians do things that affect public policy and harms others because of it, like anyone else, they need to held to account.
AA, I think we have beat this horse enough. I’ll just say that you should reread the thread, many here have called him a fake Christian, a phony Christian, even a false prophet, all for the egregious action of following his conscience and his interpretations of The Constitution.
Our biggest disagreement is that you think Pence “sinned” in not going along with Trump’s plan, I don’t.
A cogent argument could be made that if he did go along, subvert the process in the vain hopes of currying favor and increasing his chances for 2024, that would be a sin, because he did it for personal gain, have you ever thought about that?
No, I don’t think Pence sinned by not “going along with Trump’s plan” (there was no Trump plan other than for everyone to do what is right). Pence sinned because he knew there were other legal electors offered by the contested states yet he ignored those legal electors — as did the Democrats.
Maybe instead of calling Pence a “sinner”, just call him a “Democrat”?
“Maybe instead of calling Pence a “sinner”, just call him a “Democrat”?”
Which is currently a Globalist, which is a Socialist, which in turn is a Communist. They’re proving it right now.
If Puny Pence was a Catholic, he’d have to go to confession and tell the priest that he lied to our President.