There are way too many lofos (people who only have a casual, or low information, understanding of politics and the issues) unintentionally destroying this country.
I say unintentionally because I think they are ignorantly identifying themselves with the wrong party. How do we educate them?
About 15 years ago I had a friend who started going out with a guy that was about 12 years younger than her. The relationship became serious and they eventually married and now have 2 kids and he is a very successful landscaper in NYC.
He was an ambitious guy, thoughtful and curious, but painfully low information. Politics just wasn’t something he thought about. But he was getting interested.
During a dinner conversation he leaned over and said he was starting to get interested in a show called The O’Reilly Factor. He’d been watching it about a week and thought it was good. I could tell he was floating it as a trial balloon. He was trying to figure out if his views were similar to mine, but not for the reasons I suspected. Usually people do that to see if they can open up more and more and reveal themselves to be either progressive or conservative. He was poking around because he was unsure of what he was and what he should call himself.
It seems unfathomable that someone wouldn’t know if they were progressive or conservative, but this is not as uncommon as one would think. I spent the next 20 minutes asking him about his views on big hot button issues. Turns out he was conservative but was telling people he was a democrat. His father was a democrat. That’s where his political acumen started and finished. Had we not had the conversation it is very possible this person would have done his civic duty voting for the wrong candidate.
I’ve had two recent conversations with strangers that revealed this phenomenon. The first was with a hair cutter. She was a Christian, very much into proselytizing, very much into railing about illegal immigration, very much into railing about small businesses being harder and harder to maintain with “stupid government regulations,” and she was upset with the state of education in this country, how so much money has been spent and how things are getting much worse.
She asked me what I did and I told her that I was an artist and that I also contributed to a website which took up most of my time. She asked the name. I told her I couldn’t tell her because it was political in nature and I’m anonymous and she already had my name from the sign-up sheet at the desk. She didn’t understand this explanation at all and pressed for the name saying, “if it makes you more comfortable I’ll tell you that I’m a liberal.”
I wanted to jab her in the eyes with her own scissors. This woman WAS NOT A LIBERAL. She was calling herself a liberal because it tests better in her haircutting world. I asked her if her liberalism was at odds with her Christian faith. She had no idea what I was talking about.
A friend just took me to a friend’s art gallery. I always brace myself for a nose-pinching afternoon of progressive bullsh!ttery when I have to associate with “my people.” They always assume I am a fellow traveler.
I was shocked to hear this woman volunteering a lot of gratuitous information that I took as a signal that she wanted to convey “I’m an artist, but I’m no progressive.”
She talked very openly about the problems with Muslims.
She talked extremely capitalistically for an artist. Everything was about the money aspects of her business.
She talked about the government screwing with her health insurance, particularly retirees and the changes in medicare law. She talked about how her retirement check is eaten up by medicare, penalized for every dollar she makes over a certain amount, to pay for people who pay nothing,
If I had to guess, all indications were that this was a conservative.
Then she said, “and things will get much, much worse now that these fucking miserable Republicans (the reason for all these problems) managed to get control of Congress.”
I wanted to jab her paint brushes into her eyes.
So, now that I’ve blinded two people, what can be done about this?
Wayne Allyn Root’s suggestion is a series of infotainment segments on late night tv.
What do you guys have?
“Then she said, ‘and things will get much, much worse now that these fucking miserable Republicans (the reason for all these problems) managed to get control of Congress.”
I must say, she appears to be right, at this point.
i have a cousin….his wife is the mayor of my small town. They both are lofo’s. Have small town values, and a capitalistic mindset, etc….but I can not get them to listen to Rush. They hate his delivery…I asked them about his message and it just went over their heads. They have no internet and voted for Obama twice…..and watch the alphabets.
no way…no how will they ever become a hifo
ThirdTwin,
trust me, she wasn’t playing 3-level chess.
It hasn’t happened to me yet but, if someone were to make some “Right” points and then get pissy about GOP or such, I’d tell them the Dems are completely against whatever it was they claimed they supported. In other words, rather than “pushing” the Right, pointing out that the Left is their TRUE opponent might help flip on the switch.
As a former broadcast engineer, many of my acquaintances tend toward the left. One of my friends from those days is the best voice-over guy I know (self-employed) and often expresses conservative views and values, but stops short when it comes to identifying with conservatives as a whole. His politics are based on what the MSM tells him to think. It is frustrating to try to get him to overcome his perception of the ‘evil right’, even though he thinks like a conservative!
Is there really landscaping in New York City?
I’ve never really believed I could change someone’s mind about religion or politics.
Hard to think of any solution to this when lo-fo is becoming more common rather than less, if this AP story is to be believed:
~~~
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/things-americans-slipping-sense-duty-27879036?singlePage=true
. . .
Americans don’t feel much pressure to keep up with news and public issues anymore.
Only 37 percent think that’s very important, down from a majority — 56 percent — in 1984.
In fact, a fifth say there’s no obligation at all to stay fully informed.
The young are even less likely to feel citizens ought to know what’s going on, despite having unprecedented amounts of information at their fingertips.
~~~
Since “Republican” and “conservative” have such taints to them, the only solution I can think of is to start pushing the label “libertarian.” Your stylist would probably accept being told that she leans libertarian. And if she’s curious enough to investigate, she might find out that libertarians overlap with Republicans much more often than they do Democrats.
Or maybe we can point out to these semi-sane people that they are “classic Democrats,” not the awful “progressives” who’ve been co-opting the party’s name, which is also true.
BFH, I guess it’s like Obama vowing to stop fracking, raise the minimum wage, increase corporate tax rates and socialize healthcare “to help the middle class.”
As long as you tag the sanitizer on at the end–in this case, “those miserable fucking republicans”–the lofos forgive or forget what came before it.
I didn’t know I was conservative until Carter started doing completely stupid and destructive stuff that turned me off and then me voting Libertarian in 1980 because… Republicans are EVIL – so I was told so many times plus it was backed up by Nixon not being completely honest and then getting a pardon from Ford. That pissed me off. No one pays the price for shenanigans? That’s how it’s going to go?
Then Reagan became president and everything he did rang true to me. The common sense, the caring about what is right, being strong in foreign policy, sticking up for Israel for example. He had a strong loving hand on the tiller.
Add that as the years rolled by, I saw time and again that the Dems were only giving mouth service to integrity – they showed themselves to be the most dishonest people I watched by saying one thing and screwing you the next moment. Mostly though they NEVER held their own accountable. Nixon was a saint by comparison. The Dem die-hard voters do not use any brain cells for critical thinking on this.
It’s not easy to get people to see themselves with 20/15 clarity and move to more fitting politics.
Experiential lessons are the best!
After my ex got her hours cut with no chance of them increasing again – IRScare – and one of her students went all racist on her because she had a black man in one photo she used in class (that was a very stressful thing for her and the school), she was not happy. Very afraid for her future, in fact.
My first response –
‘That’s what you get for voting Dem all your life and always looking for the easy guaranteed path. You helped this happen. It’s your “me me me gimme” attitude that’s the problem underneath it all.’
She doesn’t vote Dem any more.
Lofo means they pay low attention to the whole thing, and we’ve all been subjected to pervasive leftist propaganda – they don’t want to listen, especially not to a long persuasive argument that might render them unpopular!
I think the key is bumper sticker/ sound bite/ shoutable slogans.
It is hard to convey much truth this way BUT it gets past the resistance, and may inspire some thought.
“can’t have prosperity without productivity”
“support amnesty, oppose voter ID = treason”
“demagogues are evil”
“register to vote, get on a jury”
I try. That last one works very well on fanatic coworkers – they seem to lose all interest in politics. Being a (D) is all about voting yourself bennies, not duties. I like to rub it in with talk about “spend your summer making a couple lawyers rich”
Just a quick intro to facts & reality may go a long way.
As more idiots get punched by racist fascists they start growing up.
Will enough grow up in time to stop it?
Anonymous, Dunno but I keep my .308s in good shape just in case.
It would be more effective to just shoot them. Unfortunately, that isn’t legal, so I’m not sure what recourse remains. The leftists I know are brainwashed, willfully ignorant, and convinced they are enlightened intellectuals. They won’t even consider that I might have a different point of view than they do because of things I’ve learned (which they have not), experiences, or differing priorities. The one thing I usually leave a conversation with is, “do you like being told what to do?” That usually leaves them dumbfounded.
That is a pretty tall order when for the last hundred plus years the progressive movement, through the Democrat Party, has made being naive and even stupid into a virtue.
The solution requires a strong, positive communicator who cares more that the truth is told than who tells it.
Better to allow them to save face, by saying this:
“You have been lied to by experts, all your life. From being taught by union members in a govt. school, to the bureaucrats who run the govt. , to the newsmen who get much of their info handed to them by govt. employees. ”
and maybe:
“Few dare speak against the lies. They sound good on the surface. They tell people what they want to hear, want to believe. The truth is harder, it takes more thought and doesn’t sound so sweet”
I see this all the time, people who live like conservatives but vote and talk like progressives. I don’t understand the disconnect.
You can’t pour a gallon’s worth of liquid into a quart jar. So it is when dealing with lofo liberals.
If anyone read the Allen West article from a short time ago you will probably come to the conclusion that there is a large contingent of Lofo’s that aren’t going to change.
@BFH – I have a very similar situation. I’m conservative/libertarian, active duty army, etc. But for fun I belong to the SCA (a middle ages reenactment group, if you’ve never heard of them) and overall the membership in the group leans Left. Especially up here in Washington State. Fort Lewis is right in the middle of the Seattle-Olympia corridor, which may as well be Portlandia north.
Anyway…I don’t know how many times I’ve been at one of our weekend medieval events, bullshitting around the fire over drinks, and gotten into conversation with people where they complain about the exact same things – high taxes, the burdens of small businesses, illegals not being deported, healthcare, government spending, the whole nine yards. And then turn around and talk about how they vote Democrat to stop the Republicans from doing all those things.
And when I try to point out they’re voting for the people who are doing all those things, all of a sudden I’m a fascist racist Republican. Infuriating.
Lofos may just be uninformed, or young and often have an epiphany as they age. I know I did. Recovered from a youth spent cheering on the Yippies creating havoc at the ’68 Dem convention when I was 19 to voting for loser independent candidates to Republican conversion to full blown Tea Party Conservative in my dotage.
The voters who really seem delusional are the truly educated, successful who still cling the good karma they feel they earn from electing the first black president. Met a nice couple on a European cruise this fall — he a successful entrepreneur, she a retired physician — and Jewish. I asked how she could justify supporting Obama and his party given their stance on Israel. She said “well it’s not the best”. I offered that that was a gross understatement — that it was downright hostile. She said, yes but she just could never be a Republican because of their positions on social issues. So is it all about abortion and gay rights? It seems those issues dull the brains of otherwise intelligent Democrats. The brain washing may be complete.
@ Uncle Dirt
That’s exactly the kind of person I meant, who might be more susceptible to the approach:
“but if that’s what you believe, don’t you see how the Democrats do everything in their powers to destroy/prevent/prohibit that?!”
Sometimes it’s more effective to awake the notion that the Dems are THE ENEMY than showing how similar their sentiments are to ours.
Actually, almost ALL THE TIME.
Think about what the Dems/alinskyites do…do they flourish on about how wonderful they are…or do they spend 99% of their energy demonizing us? Just start by
exposing the cognitive dissonance.
I run into the same group you do Fur at art openings and galleries, that is, REressives and their idiocy. One nice thing about the time I spent in Canon City and showed at the local gallery was the fact it was a conservative town and even most of the artists were also conservative.
Nothing like that in Denver or Hawaii-I never make it a point to hide my beliefs. When other artists in these locales realize I’m a conservative, their entire demeanor changes-it’s as though I’ve suddenly changed into some evil thing…oh wait, that’s what they think of us.
The commenter that noted a lifetime of lies is a tough thing to shake and they’re correct. It’s so much easier to go along with them. I’m amazed that this country isn’t more REgressive.
And of course the very first thing I would do as King is make vouchers mandatory-let the funding follow the child-it would end, once and for all, REgressivism in one generation.
In my experience, they don’t want to know. This includes entire branches of my family. They don’t want to hear anything that might make them have to think about anything. And they certainly don’t want to take responsibility for their own ideas, situations, or pretty much anything else. “Democrat-good, Republican-evil” has been burned into their tiny brains permanently. It doesn’t give me any pleasure to say so, but I’m afraid too large a percentage of our population is past helping.
Just when I think we are making progress, they come out with a poll like yesterday’s saying Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are the most admired people in the world.
Seriously messed up my head and my day.
I blame shit like The Today Show, Good Morning America, and also shit like “yahoo news”. For so many millions of people, this is their sole source of information about what the hell is going on outside their door. They pay attention for like 10 minutes and then get back to their daily routine. And those 10 minutes of straight down the line liberal agitprop unfortunately are more than enough to infect their worldview and then of course their voting patterns. Until we begin to take control of at the very least a third of “the media” this country will continue to swirl down the toilet.
I have helped more than a few people figure out they are actually “conservative”. I find the easiest way is to get them to click on some of my favorite web sites such as this one. After being spoon fed their information by Huff Poo etc a lot of them are surprised at what they read here and elsewhere. Turns out we are not as bad as we are made out to be. One guy even calls me by his now favorite site!! You guys here and elsewhere really do a great job exposing the lies that are tossed around as gospel at Prog sites. Keep it up guys!! Their mask is beginning to slip!
First off, I believe what I say. When I say I think liberals are either brain dead retards or evil communists, I mean just that.
No sound argument wins over evil retards.
Piggybacking a previous comment or two, you need a strong communicator but more than that you need a cult of personality. They are fascists. They need that.
In my day to day, I play devils advocate so often that hell should give me a W-2. I treat people that I want to win over like I do cats.
I’m aloof and unattainable. My opinions are mysterious and aren’t pinned down. I ask open ended questions. If it goes nowhere, end on a punchy laugh line and leave.
On the internet? Pffft. Fuck those commie assholes. No one ever changed anyone’s mind on the internet.
I’m aloof and unattainable. My opinions are mysterious and aren’t pinned down. I ask open ended questions. If it goes nowhere, end on a punchy laugh line and leave.
On the internet? Pffft. Fuck those commie assholes.
>>>>>>
Sheer poetry.
I may make a pillow out of this.
If I meet someone who is questioning their political beliefs I suggest they go to this site and take the test and get back to me with the results:
https://www.nolanchart.com/survey-php
.
That either opens their eyes or causes them to dig their heels in on their progtardism.
If their eyes are opened then I lend them my copy of “5000 Year Leap”.
If they come back positive I lend they my copy of “Conflict of Visions” by Thomas Sowell.
If that goes over well I lend them the coup de grace – “Atlas Shrugged”.
@MM:
Those Germans from the era of 1933-1939 were amongst the very easily manipulated that didn’t believe any of that NAZI propaganda until it was the only game in town then they went along to get along never realizing Hitler and his pals really were hell bent on eradicating the Jews and by then it was to late. They either had to participate or deny it was happening.
I’ve had many conversation with Libs, some of whom are very good friends. Most are lofo, and when you show them the fallacy of their belief system, they just ignore the logic, and go on the attack with incoherent rhetoric. If your with more than two and things get heated, they act much like Orwell’s1984 New Speak goal, sounding like quacking ducks.
Sadly. being incapable of introspection and admitting their whole belief system is a sham, it’s become a defense mechanism.
Fortunately, most of them don’t consider voting a civic duty.
I watched “Watter’s World” tonight on Fox (O’Reilly). The questions were about Lincoln.
Most got the answers correct. He fought the Civil War.freed the slaves, and was assassinated. One black girl thought he wrote the Constitution, and one guy thought he was a war monger.
When asked if Lincoln was a Democrat or Republican, some said he was a Democrat and some, not many, said he was Republican.
What irritated me was that one seemingly intelligent young lady said, ” He was a Republican but Republicans were way different back then,so it doesn’t really mean anything.” There was no, “in what way”? followup question.
No mention of Eisenhower,or the Civil Rights Act of 1964 being passed by Republicans.
Turning LoFos into HiFos is like pissing against the wind.
Had a Dem boss who hated illegal immigration, hated high taxes, government is too much in our business, thought Dems were weak when it came to wars, supported Israel whole heartedly, loved loved loved GW’s speech after 9/11, liked Reagan etc. But she believed that the Reps who believed the same thing were too “mean” for her. I just don’t know if she ever connected the dots. Maybe she did after Obama got elected and started verbally backhanding and manhandling Israel and messing with her healthcare. Who knows? I hope she’s in pain over her idiocy, though.
I was disappointed that I had missed out on this discussion thread while it was still hot, but then I read a couple of comments that pretty much covered what I had to say:
1. Like Boobie, I’ve never really thought I could change someone’s mind about politics. Maybe I am just a lousy salesman, but I really think people are set in their political convictions, no matter how wrong and stupid they are.
2. If there WERE a way to change people’s minds, it would be to let them change their own minds for themselves, with self-sought information. And that’s where I think Jethro’s Nolan Chart survey comes in. Although I have always been a conservative, I had no idea I was a libertarian until I ran across that survey on Neal Boortz’s website. But finding it out that way, I was not nearly as resistant to the idea as if some know-it-all, self-proclaimed political expert had told me the same thing.
For that matter, I think there are a lot of people like I was, who are conservative libertarians but don’t know it; including some who bad-mouth libertarians here and elsewhere.
[/Quote ]
Mark Zist
12/30/2014 at 2:55 pm
I see this all the time, people who live like conservatives but vote and talk like progressives. I don’t understand the disconnect.
[Quote]
“Why don’t you preach what you practice?” – Dennis Prager
The liberal media does a pretty good job of convincing the mentally handicapped that they are speaking nothing but the truth, even though the opposite is so easy to prove if you research any one of their propaganda pieces.
I convinced my x-wife to vote republican when she asked me, after we were divorced, “aren’t the democrats the ones who are going to take care of you?” I told her the democrats are the ones who think you are too stupid to make any decisions for yourself, so they are going to make all of them for you – whether you like it or not. People don’t like being told that they are stupid.
Show them what a fraud the democrats are. Youtube videos are convincing, or Dreams of My Real Father, stuff like that.
This recent video featuring Pelosi lying her shriveled ass off addresses both lies and stupidity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKsBbsW1UCI
And if that doesn’t make them scratch their head and wonder about the lies, they are probably not worth the trouble of trying to help.
I should have made a distinction between liberals and simply disengaged lofo idiots. Subjectively, to me they are one in the same which is why I didn’t.
Everyone needs something to rebel against and liberals are in power. They are on the offensive and their only true joy in life is to stick their middle fingers in the eyes of anyone who thinks differently than they do – or having the government do it for them because in real life you’d break that finger off and shove it up their ass.
Anyone with libertarian or conservative leanings who can see what’s going on and not take offense to it is not going to be disengaged. They might be cowed into silence or doing as you did above and just play along to keep the peace or from being professionally impacted but being disengaged? You’re not allowed to because liberals will not leave you the fuck alone.
In. Every. Area. Of. Your. Life.
That is the essence of liberalism. The oppression of the individual for the sake of The Collective. Now watch the regulated, culturally sensitive celebratory dance after the completely legal hit on the quarterback after making rules to protect from concussions while wearing your pink breast cancer awareness uniform before we go to the commercial break where domestic abusers are going to lecture the public to not beat women in consideration of the #WarOnWomen that has never been happening. Because people who watch football beat their wives so we have to advertise this bullshit during your one moment of relaxation a week.
Turn off the tv. Maybe a blow job would help. Did you have her give consent by signing the EZ-SCA proper form (downloadable through the HHS website), get it notarized, and apostilled? This is liberalism.
You are not allowed to be disengaged.
Since the ashes of the wasted 2010 victory, I have taken to openly mocking and laughing at liberals at any opportunity, Gruber style. In other words, treat them the way they treat me. Since I live in the People’s Republic of Taxachusetts, opportunity abounds.
The experience has learned me that this is exactly what the opposition needs. It’s a scorched earth policy that hasn’t resulted in converting many, yet I have gotten plenty folks to at least question themselves and self-police any interactions they have with me. I feel more comfortable in my own skin and find myself apologizing for who I am far less often.
The other side doesn’t believe in winning hearts and minds. And they are winning. We need to learn from that.
The first thing that must happen is you must arrive at a place where your hostility toward the left is controllable. For me, this is only intermittently. Then, you must become expert at conveying the fundamentals of both parties in a non-judgmental way. I could write a book on this and most of you could also. You then need to be able to dismantle modern propaganda. For example: There is no shortage of oil. The USGS has confirmed that the Green River formation contains 3T barrels, more than half recoverable. You must be able to quote and link the official source. You must be able to pose the question – “why are so many people saying the US has no oil? We hold, in fact, the world’s greatest reserves. I stated this to a liberal friend, and I could just see the hostility in her eyes…. she thought this was somehow a lie.
The IDB just did a story discussing who is supporting Dem and GOP candidates. Turns out the wealthy more often serve the Dems. And most of you know that Obungo got more money from Wall Street in 2008 than any candidate in history. You need good data souces to turn propaganda on its head. Pick apart preconceptions with very fundamental info.
But the best way to fast track awareness in this country is to quietly appeal to wealthy conservatives to take over the media. The very reason citizens don’t know is because the left has already done this to their benefit. We will not win the war until people can consistently get valid information.