Miami Herald
The six bullets that killed a carjacked UPS truck driver and a bystander stuck in traffic in a busy Broward intersection came from guns fired by four Miami-Dade police officers, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement’s investigative summary report…
…The report also concludes that [Officer Richard] Santiesteban fired up to 44 rounds; [Officer Rodolfo] Mirabal up to 19; [Officer Jose] Mateo up to 18 and [Officer Leslie] Lee up to six. A total of 20 Miami-Dade officers, three Miramar officers, one Pembroke Pines officer and one Florida Highway Patrol trooper were involved in shootout.
The events leading up the shooting began earlier that day when two men robbed Regent Jewelers on Miracle Mile in Coral Gables and hijacked the UPS truck driven by Ordóñez. That ignited the high-speed interstate chase — up Florida’s Turnpike, Okeechobee Road, Interstate 75 and the streets of Pembroke Pines — before ending in the gunfight that killed the two innocent men as well as robbery suspects Lamar Alexander and Ronnie Jerome Hill. More
Those deaths are the fault of the robbers, change my mind. – Dr. Tar
“change my mind.”
You’re not a gun guy are you? And that’s alright. But consider this. I carry a gun every day. Every morning it’s wallet, keys, chew, gun. I consider myself damn good with a gun. I practice that skill at least 3 times a month. If I were in a defensive gun fight and killed everyone but the bad guys, what’s my future look like as a civilian? These are the Alec Baldwin of cops. My God, look at that round count. Same old shit, cops that don’t train. To Protect and Shoot yo ass by mistake. OOPs. Hang them. Because these same assholes think they have more gun rights than I do. After all, they carry a badge.
Nope. You charge police officers with shit like this snd you end up with more criminals with no fear.
Unfortunately there is no good way for police to resolve this peacefully, mainly because we no longer enforce laws equally.
Do the crime and you must do the time – or pay the ultimate pricr. This MUST be applied yo ALL that pull this shit.
Police, when defending the public from deviants and when enforcing the law, must have very much more leeway when innocents are harmed in any way. The perps need be the ones blamed when they force law enforcement in these situations.
Oops. Brad made me lookstupid as usual.
fullmetal256
Bull shit, they just executed two innocent people. What’s the number one rule of gun safety? Again, look at the round count. Mag dumps all the way around. Fucking no skill hacks with guns. Now just so you understand, i live in a county that has a primo agency. They train. I support them 100 percent. These cops should hang.
fullmetal256
If you don’t know you should. You’re one of my favorite contributors here. We might have a slight difference of opinion on this subject.
What were the bad guys doing that constituted an immediate threat of death or serious injury to the innocent people nearby? The article is mute on the subject. Absent such a threat, the cops were dead wrong, CRIMINALLY wrong, to fire their weapons, especially in such a haphazard and undisciplined manner.
If the bad guys were shooting at surrounding traffic with the stupid idea that that would make it possible to escape the crowded intersection, then that would be a whole different story. But they weren’t doing that, were they?
Bad cops! BAA-AA-AAD Cops! No donut, no pension, no parole.
Brad, i sincerely bow to your superiority with weapons. I do own a gun just in case one is needed, but i haven’t shot it in years. Pathetic.
However, prosecutors are putting harmful perps back on the street which emboldens them, thinking they can do anything and get away with it.
Had a bit to drink as well with 4 hours sleep. Time for bed.
Fwiw Brad, I have the utmost respect for you and for your knowledge.
Brad, thank you for the compliment. It means a lot.
I was wrong on this one.
fullmetal256
I’m being sincere. There’s a handful of us that are on the same page 90% of the time. I won’t name them, but you are one of them. FYI, I’m sleep deprived tonight too. Long week. In fact, good night.
This sounds as if the cops thought they were in a movie, rather than real life, which never mimics what is shown on the big screen. The cops did not seem to understand restraint or have an actual assessment of the situation and as a consequence innocent people were killed. Shameful, cops are not gods and need to be held to account when they mess up, and in this situation they did!.
I’d like to know what their scores were when they did their qualifying shooting. I wonder how often the cops actually fired their weapons, and if they had any kind of situational training. I remember years ago reading about a shootout where it seemed the cops weren’t even aiming, just pointing in the general direction and letting fly.
However, the bad guys are at fault, though the cops may have been lousy shots.
DavidW
So if your family is held hostage we’ll send these cops.
“So if your family is held hostage we’ll send these cops”
Or you can request me and Lowell. Don’t know the man. Never shot with him. But I know he’s the real deal. And we will only fire as many rounds as there are bad guys.
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but those WORTHLESS P.O.S. cops fired 87 rounds in a crowded area full of bystanders and the only person they hit was THE VICTIM!!!!!! HOLY Fu*k Batman! That ignorant fu*ker that fired 44 rounds needs to spend the rest of his life in prison, and the rest of them should never be allowed to be cops again.
Bad cop. No donut.
Used to work on juke boxes and pinball machines in Miami and Ft. Lauderdale.
One night I was under the machine when ‘one of them’ stood next to me pointing a gun at my head and demanded all the money. I was hot, tired and fed up having to work on these things without mileage allowance and driving my own car. I reached up, pushed the gun away from my head and angrily told that guy to point that thing somewhere else. Must have stunned him good because he shrugged his shoulders, turned around and left. I packed my tools went home and the next day called in and said I quit my job. I left Florida shortly after.
I thought that one of the first rules of shooting was to identify your target.
Maybe I misheard that.
Sounds like the cops used the “spray and pray” method.
mortem tyrannis
izlamo delenda est …
The cops went into an uncontrolled blast ‘thataway’ mode. Not what they were trained to do at all. Depraved indifference and criminal negligent homicide should be charged.
Thanks Brad.
Few cops spend time at the range. Back when the Savannah police dept transitioned to the same gun the GA State patrol was using I got a S&W 65-2 trade-in that had lots of holster wear. Internally it was pristine. There was no wear that was measurable. The S&W had 20+ years of use when I got it.
This is easy. Whoever was holding the gun(s) is 100% responsible for where those bullets go and what they do. Irrespective of provocation, if one cannot shoot safely, one should not shoot. The items stolen are never worth the loss of innocent life.
@ 1007: unless yo name be baldwin
It’s the Democrat’s fault. And anyone who spouts “Defund the police” is also at fault. Also, anyone who subscribes to DEI. Police are now getting a bad rap due to all of the bad hires they made, from the top down. Not funding proper training is also at fault.
The individual police that shot the bystanders, the robbers, DEI, defunding, and everything you all talked about are the fault the Democrats wanting to destroy us.
polees attempting the asset forfeiture & confiscation, red-flag, or public emergency (covid) lockdown bullshit: proceed @ your own risk
The robbers choose to steal a very large and certainly dangerous vehicle to aid in their escape then got caught in traffic with the same vehicle with the potential to cause great injury and death to the public at large. Yes, these officers fired their weapons, so did a number of other officers at the scene. I’m assuming the thieves were also armed, though I don’t recall that fact from the article. Still, I’m comfortable with thinking the officers should have assumed them being armed given the nature of their crime and their subsequent behavior.
Would those officers have been there if the thieves had not chosen a UPS truck as a getaway vehicle? Would the officers be found equally at fault if a bystander or innocent driver was killed or injured by the reckless use of said vehicle?
These deaths are the fault of the thieves not the officers who did their duty in stopping further harm or injury to the public in an extreme situation.
doan care who tf you are. ur responsible for every round.
so the murdering cps-dindu-byrd is not responsible?
the two yard-apes that committed the original crimes should be held responsible. see ya
87 rounds!!! Two innocent people killed. If you don’t have a clear objective for taking that shot, a high percentage of putting that round where you want it to go, why are you breaking that shot. I understand suppressive fire. But this is not Afghanistan and honestly if there’s that much lead in the air the cops need to BACK OFF TO PRESERVE LIFE. How many of the 87 rounds were aimed at the tires? I’m guessing zero. I was always under the assumption Law Enforcement’s main mission in situations like this were the preservation of life.
The bad news is these damn mag dumps are beginning to be acceptable training in some of the tactical classes I see popping up. It’s a bad joke. Especially when you end up with an empty gun in the middle of a gun fight. One of my favorite trainers is a POST certified guy. He trains LE. But he doesn’t train them like that.
Once again, this is merely a preview of coming attractions. If anyone thinks that DEI, defunding, and less training is going to result in policemen with greater skill proficiency than in the past, one is sadly mistaken. It has been a race downhill for some time and the acceleration is increasing. It will not be long before those who barely qualified for an unarmed security job, and those who are notorious gangsters, will be “the police.” We are still in the beginning stages of the death of civilization.
Get straight with the Christ, and pray that the pre-trib rapture guys are right.
Lowell
Someday I’d like to know you’re background. You obviously know your shit. LOL