Pardon For Snowden? – IOTW Report

Pardon For Snowden?

Sunday, 16 August 2020, 21:30 Dr. Tar Uncategorized 45

Reuters

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Saturday he is considering a pardon for Edward Snowden, the former U.S. National Security Agency contractor – now living in Russia – whose spectacular leaks shook the U.S. intelligence community in 2013.

The Republican president’s comments followed an interview Trump gave to the New York Post this week in which he said of Snowden that “there are a lot of people that think that he is not being treated fairly” by U.S. law enforcement.

“I’m going to start looking at it,” Trump told reporters about a possible pardon, speaking at a news conference at his Bedminster, New Jersey golf club. More

45 Comments on Pardon For Snowden?

  4. Molon, don’t you think his greatest violation is against the deep state? I don’t think an outright pardon should be in the cards, but if the deep state is nervous I’m happy.

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  11. While a complicated notion by it’s very idea? Why not? All that shit is Pre-Trump anyway and he KNEW enough to understand it, learn from it and STAY AWAY from it. It was his NY instinct if you will.

    Along with what @joe6pak and @Bad_Brad said, but you do know the same person the offed SR also did Epstein in!!

    @Douglas Wakeman – that would depend on ‘what the definition of IS…is…’ – to quote a Slob.

    Will Putin let him go is the question?

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  13. Master troll at work. Federal LE and IC has countenanced a great deal of treason and sedition since the Snowden affair. They look rather foolish obsessing on Snowden now. Straining at a gnat and swallowing the camel.

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  14. ghost, seems like there is a strong story regarding a couple MS-13 guys that pulled the trigger on Seth Rich. Turns out they didn’t live long after that. Donna Brazile might have first hand knowledge, along with Muriel Bowser, as to who really finished him off.

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  16. I am going to have to be the counterpoint to many of the opinions here. I do understand the concept that the deep state was exposed, and for that, I am grateful. However, can we make an exception? Snowden broke the law, and I have to support punishment for him.

    If the President does pardon him, so be it. I will have to disagree.

    What that punishment should be, I am not sure. I have spent a lot of time thinking about it, and I do not have a good solution. As a citizen, I have the right to disagree with some of the laws, but I do not have the right to pick and choose which laws to obey and which to disobey. If I decide to disobey a law, then I have to face the consequences.

    If I don’t agree with a law, as a US citizen, I have the responsibility to fight to have those laws reversed and to work to get people elected who agree with me.

    Just my opinion

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  19. RogerF, a lot of nogoodniks make a deal that some prosecutors feel is for the greater good. This may be an example of that, assuming of course we get full and complete cooperation.

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  21. RogerF – I think all pardons reverse a conviction of someone who broke the law. And as for “work(ing) to get people elected who agree with me”, we elected Donald Trump who has the pardon power.

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  22. Exposing our criminal government should not be a crime.

    All those Republicans who wanted his head on a platter are not Republicans, nor patriots.

    Julian Assange is a hero for exposing Hillary Clinton as a fraud as well.

    Shame on you people!

    9

  23. Bad_Brad – that is where I don’t have an answer. Hacking into government servers as a contractor and exposing something that has been declared a state secret is a crime. On the other hand, the treasonous acts of the deep state are also crimes. Without breaking laws to obtain and publish the information, the deep state would never have been exposed.
    This is a gray area in my mind, though I have to stick with the rule of law, whether I agree, or not. I do not have a remedy.
    My argument is that if we have a disagreement with a law, when do we allow it to be broken, regardless of the outcome?
    Maybe you are right. I am willing to be persuaded, so fire away. I will defend my position until I can be convinced. We may have to disagree on this, but please, try to change my mind.

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  24. @Douglas – I completely agree with you. In my original post, my statement was meant to say that he has that authority, but I would have to disagree with it for the reasons I mentioned.

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  27. RogerF, if you were to watch Millie Weaver’s video on “Shadowgate” (now removed from YouTube for hate speech) the whistle blowers tell a story that Snowden initially was following orders from Brennan to accumulate info for his own illegal purposes. Anything that brings down the deep state or shadow government is a good thing.

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  28. Yes, Ed Snowden broke the law. In his case, though, enforcing the law would be unjust. This is exactly what pardons (and jury nullification) are best used for. These aren’t saying “he didn’t do it” but rather “he did it but shouldn’t be punished”.

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  31. @Μολων Λαβε:

    @Uncle Al:

    In his case, though, enforcing the law would be unjust.

    do you believe the SCOTUS would agree? & why?

    I don’t see the relevance of whether or not SCOTUS would agree. It’s not a matter to be decided by that court.

    The Constitution recognizes the right of jury nullification indirectly by virtue of prohibiting double jeopardy, and grants the power of pardon to the President. It’s not a matter for their consideration.

    (I’m assuming you mean SCOTUS acting in their constitutional capacity as the highest appellate court and not the personal opinions of members of the court.)

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  32. @Uncle Al ~ forgive my clumsy misstatement of the question … I’m going from the assumption that he would be tried by US courts because he broke the law … & seeing how our courts work, little is decided until SCOTUS rules on it.

    you stated that Snowden broke the law. is this different from Manning breaking the law? Manning has been tried & found guilt. I don’t believe Snowden has (I could be wrong … hard to imagine, but it has happened … lol), but why should his breaking the law not be enforced & Manning’s was? (don’t get me wrong; I think that Manning should have been found guilt … & not pardoned) … what is the difference between the two? … or Daniel Ellsberg, for that matter?

    I don’t like that Carter Page & Gen. Flynn have been convicted under false, pretentious charges … the answer is to abolish the laws (& the FISC), then exonerate, because the law (& the FISC) can been shown as unConstitutional

    (pardon my throwing all sorts of crap around … just how my mind works … not too well, obviously)

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  33. @Μολων Λαβε:

    I’m going from the assumption that he would be tried by US courts because he broke the law … & seeing how our courts work, little is decided until SCOTUS rules on it.

    President Trump could pardon him before he is even indicted, much less tried and convicted. Note that President Ford pardoned President Nixon even though no prosecutorial action had been taken towards indictment.

    Snowden, Manning, and Ellsburg are alike insofar as they all violated laws against revealing classified information. While there are similarities, there are also differences. But it is individuals and not classes of individuals that are brought to trial. Each prosecution needs to be looked at in isolation, stare decisis be damned.

    I will agree, though, that those three did certainly violate the law. The question here is whether applying the law to each one is just or unjust. I’m inclined to leniency for such people who leak classified information that reveals lawbreaking by others. I’m inclined to severe retribution for such people who leak classified information for money, or to aid enemies of the U.S. people.

    There are more consideration but please forgive me if I think that going into them here and now is lower on my priority list than hitting the sack!

    2

  34. Maybe I’m stating the obvious, but has it been considered Snowden is a spy – possibly a double agent working for our side? The game of espionage has more twists and turns than a spider web – the players are not who they seem to be. Maybe President Trump knows a lot more than he can say and pardoning Snowden wraps up a loose end.

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  35. @Μολων Λαβε — Oops. I see I didn’t address your main question.

    If, for example, Snowden returned to the U.S. and was arrested, tried, and convicted of disclosing classified information, and he did not receive a presidential pardon, then appeals could take the case up to the SCOTUS. If he were pardoned, though, that ends it. There is no procedural avenue that would get any question in front of SCOTUS.

    Same with a jury finding him innocent even though they were presented with hard evidence of his guilt. Once the jury says NOT GUILTY, that ends any avenue for the govt to pursue in punishing him for the crime(s) he was acquitted of committing. But as we have seen all too clearly, the DOJ and come fed courts are populated by bad, bad people. He could be accused of a different crime and go through a very similar but not identical trial after being acquitted the first time. I would truly hate to see that happen.

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  36. @99th Squad Leader — It is unlikely Snowden was/is a spy. He delivered his information to the three intended recipients, and then destroyed his ability to even read the heavily encrypted documents. You might say that once they hit Wikileaks then the Russians, or Chinese, or Israelis, or Uruguayans then had access to them, but IMO that’s a lot less valuable to a spy’s handlers than being sole recipients of the secrets.

    As for him being a double agent, that’s intriguing and I’ll give it some thought…but not right this minute.

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  37. @Uncle Al ~ don’t get me wrong. I’m not arguing presidential pardons. I know that PDT can pardon Snowden w/out him being convicted.

    I’m just trying to wrap my head around the distinction between what Snowden did & what Manning, or Ellsberg did. 1.5 million pages of stolen documents is hard to ignore.

    “… going into them here and now is lower on my priority list than hitting the sack!” …… wiser words were never said!

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  38. @Uncle Al – Just because I have already brought fire upon myself, I will ask a followup on your response to ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Who gets to decide what is just or unjust? I know what I think is just, but do I have the right to speak for everyone? Given that God has declared his rules, how do we decide below His laws?

    A trivial example of what is below His laws: what right does the government have to declare a speed limit? I completely understand why speed limits exist, but it is obviously below what God should have to deal with. In that case, should I, or anyone, be able to set those limits? And if the people in power decide on a 55 mph limit, what punishment should I receive if I decide that I can’t drive 55 (apologies to Sammy H)? Is the law wrong? Or am I wrong for disobeying it?

    The founders put in a system that generally lets the people of the country decide. I do not always agree with the party that wins an election, and I am willing to legally fight against that which I deem wrong, but I am one of more than 330M.

    1

  40. @RogerF — Excellent question. The short answer is that in matters that God hasn’t already made clear we can decide only for ourselves what is just or unjust and try to persuade others that we are right.

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  41. By definition, George Washington and all of the Founding Fathers were guilty of treason against their country (England) and would have been hung if the Revolution had failed. It takes a lot of courage to go up against the Powers That Be, even when know you are right.

    If I were Trump I would pardon Snowden and Assange, right after I was re-elected in November.

    MAGA

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  42. Thanks, Uncle Al. You have brought some clarity to the possibility Snowden may not be involved in espionage. However, the actions taken which you describe could very well be exactly what was intended. My next questions are; Was this security breach a set up and if so, who set it up? How accurate was the classified information – – was it a misinformation? Inquiring minds want to know – so much more. Anywho, I trust President Trump’s decision whether to pardon Snowden or not.

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  44. A pardon for Snowden is a win for the people. Our government has grown into an enormous creature of greed, corruption and treason. When he blew the whistle so to speak- he opened the eyes of many Americans who were asleep.

    I say God bless him.

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  45. I think Snowden having to live in Russia is punishment enough. Pardon him and bring him home to testify. Pardoning Assange would be another thing. I’m all for it but the UK is punishing him for some trumped-up charges over there and they would have to agree to let him go.

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