I was chatting with Moe Tom on the horn and he brought up a question.
“Do you think Trump should reinstate the draft?”
It’s a great question for the group. Let’s hear what you think?
(Who wouldn’t want to serve on the 13 billion dollar Gerald Ford??)
I don’t think we can afford the weeding out process
My 16 year old daughter says yes and include females.
Absolutely. It would move the country in a much more conservative direction. A counter to our lerbaeral educational system.
Yes. As long as Senators son’s can’t get out of it!
Yes if it includes all special snowflakes without any exemptions.
Let’s see, we’ve got men identifying as women and 59 genders these days.
This aint your grandfather’s army.
W e a r e s c r e w e d!
After President Trump said transgenders would no longer be allowed to serve in the military, the left insisted that serving is a “right”. In view of that, hell yes reinstate the draft!
No. Absolutely not. The military draft means forcing people to serve against their will. No amount of weasel wording can get you around the 13th Amendmend:
Go ahead. Try to rationalize around that. You’ll be wrong.
I’ve been saying for a while that we should. But without college deferments. Graduate from high school and spend two years minimum in the military. And for every year you serve, you get one year tuition-free to a state college.
If parents and public schools won’t teach children to grow the hell up, then the military will.
As an added bonus, there would be far fewer snowflakes on college campuses.
I think not. We have a surplus of men and women wanting to be in the military.
The draft for what war? Worse,the training isn’t near as tough as it used to be save for more elite units. I just missed a Drill Sergeant taking a trash can upside my head, but I still didn’t refuse to do what I was told. After my group graduated I heard all sorts of ridiculous stories about training or lack thereof. The main reason I enlisted was free college, but I got so much more.
If that standard could return, a draft wouldn’t be necessary.
All this war talk because of the Kimchi Missile Crisis?
Like Roosevelt’s CCC initiative…..
Volunteers between the ages of 16-23 (separated by age) can do an 8 week cycle of basic training all year ’round to:
🔴 De-snowflake themselves
🔴 Earn some money
🔴 Build resume
🔴 Receive discipline
🔴 Get off the street
🔴 Leave their neighborhood once in their pitiful lives
🔴 Lose they damn weight
The country would eventually tilt more center/right. Money well spent.
Absolutely not. As it is, with an all volunteer force, anti American trash like Beau Bergdahl and Alfred E Newman, sorry, Bradley Manning, scooted through the vetting as volunteers.
A draft for public service maybe. One for military? No way.
No way. We have lots of patriots without having to draft all these lofo mofos. The military needs to start being treated like the elite that it is, only the great get to serve.
I want back in too. Please call me. Trained Navy Tactical Action Officer, wanting action.
No. It would be a waste of resources. The training is more specialized, time consuming and expensive. A soldier that has been drafted won’t be in long enough for all the schooling that is required to run a modern army.
DOH!
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/navy-only-woman-in-seal-training-pipeline-drops-out-1.482558#.WY5dL1WGOM8
What we pay for the military every kid should go to boot camp. Serve 3 months at the least. Talk about the draft after that. Our education system might learn a thing or two along the way.
No. No draft. The military should incentiveize by giving away prizes and junk.
You know, complete basic training, get a 10 speed bike or super powered telescope. Stuff like that.
LBS, I hope she was required to ring that bell!
I will be shocked if any woman survives BUDS training, unless they seriously weaken the standards.
Kids re so lazy, fat and out of shape I doubt there would be many who could make the cut. But the ones who do will benefit from having served.
However, America is becoming bored with traditional game shows and talent contests. Snowflake boot camp I would watch.
But R Lee Ermey has to be emcee.
Is he still alive?
Would you try to run a business with a bunch of no nothing kids who don’t want to be there? They’re more trouble than good (and that’s without weapons).
Hell yes!
Age or gender shouldn’t matter, 17 minimum and 70 the maximum age, there are only 3 genders, (1)male, (2)female and (3)totally nuts.
The totally nuts people, can grab a broom or a swab, the rest carry on.
Fritz
“I will be shocked if any woman survives BUDS training, unless they seriously weaken the standards.”
They had hi hopes for one. She tapped out today. Hadn’t even gotten to buds.
Phenry,
“The Gunny” is alive and well and doing stuff for GLOCK. 🙂
I served with draftees, the majority were as good as any who served and better than some.
However, during the anti-Vietnam era, there were an inordinate amount of anti-US, liberal/socialist, ill prepared shitbirds drafted who ate up (wasted) limited resources.
No Draft, but increase incentives, encouragement, better pay and better training to a volunteer who chooses to enlist.
Let the Military services choose the best qualified recruits to serve in the world’s premiere Armed Services.
Yes, reinstate the draft. I also think service should be mandatory for the 2 years immediately following high school.
If any of the snowflakes refuse, they one of 2 choices:
1. Run to Canada and renounce their citizenship forever.
2. Throw them in a FEMA camp, and put them on a chain gang.
The reason I brought it up. Uncle Al, is that the high rate of crime among youngsters in the USA, the unemployment, the lack of solid education, etc, the lack of knowledge: watch Watters interview college students on FOX, it would give a young man or girl
a sound trouncing. A taste of reality. An introduction to being on time, taking orders, giving orders, being respectful to others, appreciating the country we live in, being proud to be American again. I think 2 years in the Army, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard would be great for a kid. “Slavery, Involuntary servitude.”
Gimmeafuckenbreak! They would be well fed, well paid, well taken care of, and helped through college when discharged; or helped to buy a house. But would have their asses broken during basic training, which is what a lot of kids need today.
Harley Bob. I guess if upper age is 70 I’d best find a nice flowing dress and grab a swab. Real boot camp would kill me. Hahaha.
I get your point Moe Tom. Slap some sense into them. But it would be injurious to the military.
You’re asking them to be the stern and loving parents these snowflakes never had.
No. The military has a specific job to do and parenting isn’t one of them.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 4 months of Marine Corps boot camp, yes. National Service. Absolutely. I joined the service with a draft number in the 300s. The weirdos, freaks, deadbeats, misfits, stupid, and unmotivated draftees were horrible. When the service became All Volunteer, the quality of recruits improved dramatically. The service came up with incentives to let the draftees out early.
NO!….just make it a 2 year commitment that you have to serve between the ages of 18-28…you pick the term, consecutive years and no bitching. If you want to cook, then you cook. If you want to fight then you fight and hope for a conflict. Mechanics mechanic….It might have done me a world of good and saved me 20 years of bumping my head against an idiot workforce and a cowering ownership….
For the criminals that are drafted, make sure they are sent through an entirely different system to “train” them and bring them into line before they mix with the patriots that actually believe in America!
Uncle Al
As far as involuntary servitude goes; I think most of us are there already. A myriad of increasing Taxes, fees, licenses, permits, regulations, cost of schools, bloated in debt government, duplicate services, highly paid government employees from the city, township, district, County, region, State and Federal government. Not even mentioning the corruption, patronage, nepotism of the elite over-reaching governing bodies.
I’m not talking about becoming a Navy Seal, a Special Forces, Airborne Ranger etc, just two years of reality, as opposed to having 18 years being a snowflake with Mom and Dad and a phucked up school system.
hey, uncle al….
you don’t think working until mid-may just to pay your income taxes counts as “slavery” or “involuntary servitude?”…..
cause i do…….it’s here, and it’s here to stay….sigh…..
How about some sort of ROTC thing. Train young people how to handle firearms safely, use communication gear, warfare strategy, train, etc. That would solve our 2A problem and make men out of some of these balls of puss running around.
@cato, you are certainly correct, and that’s a point I’ve been hammering away at for decades. We are all being held in fractional slavery. Not all of our earnings are taken, not all of our hours are needed to follow the govt’s orders, not all of our decisions are circumscribed because of regulations or enforcement of victimless criminal laws. But much of what we do and what we earn and own is taken from us. The difference between us and antebellum chattel slaves is that slaves knew the injustices they suffered and modern Americans accept it and would like to see those injustices suffered by everybody (see above).
All of the pro-draft comments seem to be arguing from utility. Anybody want to argue from principle? Any Constitutionalists care to reconcile the draft with the extremely simple and clear words of the 13th Amendment?
@chuckie – Heh! See my reply to cato, written as you were posting your comment.
So, it’s “lie back and enjoy the inevitable” is it? /-:
Uncle Al Oh forcryinoutloud!
So the 13th Amendment tells us we should not have to stop at a stop light?
Sure, we should have a draft. But first we gut the Army, replacing it with a citizen’s militia forbidden from ever being deployed overseas. Something along the Swiss model. Unless there is an actual declared by Congress Act of War, none of these idiotic “war on terror” resolutions, we limit all of our military forces to operations in the Western Hemisphere. We tear up all of our entangling alliances. No more policing the world. No more “peace keeping”. No more spending tax money on disaster relief. Let the South Koreans, Poles, Japanese, Germans, Israel and everyone else defend their own borders, we will look after our own and nothing else.
Funny, the biggest group of snowflakes in the USA today isn’t the kids, it is cops with sand in their vaginas.
Doc. The criminals will be weeded out, those who pass through and become criminals in the service will be sent to Fort Leavenworth.
But the draft will give a good kid a chance,
I don’t know, I’m watching a couple guys post stuff I don’t necessarily agree with. And usually I’m in total agreement with them most of the time. Are we over taxed? Are we over regulated? You bet your ass. I see military training as a vehicle to reinforce constitutional values. The reason I say that is every ex or current military person I know seems to be a Patriot and have a firm grasp on the Constitution. I think I’m hearing to much John Stossel here and not enough Patton. I’ll also say you can find a shit load of Military people that feel the Military gave them freedom. I’m a strong Constitutional Conservative, I think.
“But the draft will give a good kid a chance,”
A chance at being crippled, maimed, killed or having their brains scrambled.
Leave my kids out of your big government wet dreams.
@Moe Tom – Stop light? 13th Amendment? WTF?
Brad, Patton was a traitor who spent his life living off the tax payers and thought nothing of sending cavalry and tanks against American citizens.
Chris Mallory
Wow dude, your out there. Patton a traitor? COPS suck. Stop smoking dope. So when you reply to my post here, offer proof.
No. The days of conventional warfare are well behind us. And not everyone is cut out for the kind of self-discipline and sacrifice required by serving. I don’t know what’s going to happen to the generation of self-absorbed retards, but there is a Gen Z coming up behind them, thank God Almighty.
It would be too expensive and the washout rate would be astronomical and a big waste of time/money for taxpayers footing the experiment. A really messed up 18 year old is not going to let the military straighten them out. They’ll have to get that in jail or a very sad lifetime.
AA, Wow, I didn’t expect that. Its not about conventional warfare. It’s about discipline.
The only item the Constitution charges the Federal government with is the defense and protection of the United States.
Having daughters’ significant others and friends sons in the draft age, I would hate to see this happen.
However, in a World War, my dad volunteered for the Marines.
If we get to a World War status, the draft should be reinstated.
Chris Mallory. Uncle Al, No I am not talking about sending kids to get their legs and arms blown off. I’m talking about giving kids an education. To tell the truth, I can’t argue with you assholes
Abagail. Keeping these assholes in prison is very expensive too.
@ Uncle Al
With respect, sir, a cursory reading of the history surrounding the 13th amendment and the arguments for and against make it abundantly clear it was intended to end the ability of one man to own another. It had nothing to do with conscription. Indeed, the Framers envisioned compulsory military service as a governmental power. The list of citations is lengthy indeed, but even Wikipedia still supports this.
BB — Anyone who has served can tell you that a bad apple is a drain on resources of all types. Maybe even worse, they are a drag on morale because they don’t take anything seriously. They mock everything. I’ve known really good people who get sucked into the vortex of a whiner/complainer, and no one was even confused about their gender.
What I meant by “conventional warfare” is that we don’t need the numbers that were required to demonstrate overwhelming force anymore. Not in the age of MOAB’s, drones, etc.
AA, What about the good apples? Those apples are worth saving and making conservatives out of. Bad apples can be managed.
AA, we are looking at this from opposite directions. Your looking at it from a National Security perspective, and I’m looking at it from advancing the conservative, Constitutional Agenda.
@Sturge – Then the 13th Amendment is written wrong. And Madison and those who help write the Constitution were woefully remiss in not giving the power of conscription to the central govt. Conscription is not in the enumerated powers of any branch of govt.
BB — It’s not your father’s Army anymore. I just heard a combat soldier, for example, calling into a program on C-SPAN who was as Left as one can get. And he was a wounded warrior!
Maybe after the Pentagon is purged of all the social engineers from decades of decline a draft would work.
BB — I see your point, but I don’t think the military should be the last resort for making conservatives. We need to either get control back of education or start over with real schools that teach conservative (American) values.
Sturge, Thank you very much.
AA, I’m forced to judge the state of our military on current and retired and honorably discharged people. They laugh about the gender stuff. To them it’s a good joke. These are great Patriots that maybe started on the wrong foot, but the military made Constitutional Patriots out of them. Next time your down here I’ll introduce you to a bunch of them over some smoked Tri Tip.
@Bad_Brad – In 1932, Douglas MacArthur (and his aide Dwight Eisenhower) and George Patton led the forces that forcibly and violently rousted the Bonus Army from their encampment. World War I veterans were killed as a result of the attack. It was very ugly and it has been shamefully ignored for a long, long time.
AA,
“I see your point, but I don’t think the military should be the last resort for making conservatives.”
Consider our educational system. Consider Ever Green College. The Military is the Anti Ever Green College.
BB — I understand the motivation for having everyone serve. But at present we, as a nation, aren’t positioned to have everyone serve. I think we’ve got to get past this multi-culti, “I’m a special snowflake” phase. I have no doubt we’ll get there because the Left has always had a losing proposition. Still, there is great motivation to get with the program when you’ve got 40 roommates in basic training ready to stake you out in the desert if you’re stupid enough to get everyone in trouble. I always thought that was a brilliant tactic for forcing conformity, and there is no room whatsoever for unique little darlings in the military. Or there didn’t use to be.
Uncle Al,
Your’e to smart of guy for me to question. However at the end of the day was he a Hero, or a Goat?
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1111.html
OK so kids should be encouraged after high school to go to college and study Gender Studies, Sociology, Psychology, Gender Science, Climate Change science, Tree hugging, Whale saving, planet protection, etc., but not serve two years in service to America?
AA,
My post from above.
“How about some sort of ROTC thing. Train young people how to handle firearms safely, use communication gear, warfare strategy, train, etc. That would solve our 2A problem and make men out of some of these balls of puss running around.”
I’m going with that plan. The ones that show promise, let them into the military. A great recruiting tool.
You know, now you’ve got me rethinking this.
One thing the military does extremely well is strip everyone down to some pretty basic instincts: survival, when’s my next meal?, when do I get to go to bed?. At some point in Basic you don’t even think about niceties like a shower or what you look like in a mirror (because you look like everyone else). Everyone starts out at the same rank and everyone gets the same kit. Everything you own is stamped with your last four. That’s how you can tell yourself apart from the guy or gal sleeping (and snoring) two feet away. You do good, you don’t get in trouble, but no one gets a gold star for doing good — you just don’t get in trouble.
At some point everyone becomes part of the team and you accomplish things together no single person can do alone. You’re a a “family”, you become tight, competitive with the other teams, and you NEVER take the credit individually. That is something every generation needs to learn — how to be subordinate to the needs and desires of others for the sake of the team, for the success of the team.
No. It only gives the Democrats a tool to beat us over the head with to regain power, then use it as an indoctrination tool after they do regain power.
The only thing that the young in this country fear more than paying their student loans back is reinstatement of the Draft.
Also, these Military peeps I know, know the Constitution frontwards and backwards. Guys my kids age. Is the Military teaching this? If so, good on them.
Moe Tom — I didn’t say that. What I said, or tried to say, is that between having a generation of spoiled babies who are neurotically sensitive and a generation of military leaders who embrace the military-as-social-engineering school instead of viewing it, rightfully, as national defense, I think a draft would be a disaster. The military has to be purged of all those Left-friendly people.
I’ve encouraged many young people to consider military service, both college-bound and otherwise.
BB — It’s been a long time, but I don’t remember getting courses in the Constitution, per se. We spent a lot of time learning military history. I’m sure there were some Constitution topics as they relate to the military, particularly the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
NO. Period.
If we need fodder, YES.
AA, here’s some abstract. My oldest sons, now 30, graduating class was packed full of stoners and losers. This is a very affluent area. Latch key kids. After graduation the usual suspects disappear, the ones that use to drop by my house with their pants hanging at the bottom of the cheeks of their ass. Which I promptly always pants right around their ankles. A couple years go by and my oldest son is telling me, “Hey you remember ______, he’s an Army Ranger. Get the F out of here. Time and time again. But there was this one kid, what a loser. I could write books on dumb ass shit this kid did. About as non athletic as you could imagine. “Hey dad, remember ______________, he’s a Navy Seal. Get the fuck out of here. So I guess the moral to the story is you can just never tell. The Military is FREEDOM for some of these kids/people. And yes he’s a Navy Seal on God knows how many deployments.
Too late for a ‘draft.’ The quality of American youth isn’t high enough.
My youngest son is a CW4 Army helicopter pilot in his early 30’s. His accounts of young enlistees that he’s charged with are not encouraging. And they’re volunteers.
Privileged, phone-toting, social-media addictred Millennials pretending they’re soldiers – not a good fighting force.
I just brought this up as a question. Should President Trump introduce the draft. My thinking was that young kids with no knowledge of American history and no real education, from the ghettos of America could be introduced to real life. Right away Uncle Al pulls up the 13th Amendment. What a fucking asshole!
He may be an intellectual among you, but to me he’s a phucning asshole. My intent was to introduce young people to service to America for a year or two and learn about real life
At the time I was going to be drafted, I would have said no. I had a very lucrative career interrupted by being forcibly inducted into the Army (I actually enlisted in order to have some choice in my MOS, but I was going, no matter what). I went through a lot of trauma and a lot of hardship, but I think overall it made a better person of me. I was stationed in Germany, Vietnam, and Georgia (USA), probably the last of which was the worst. Just kidding, Georgia folks – it was fine, just kind of out in the woods (Ft. Stewart).
It’s funny, but I have more lasting memories of the three years I spent in the military than the forty years I spent afterward in civilian life. I would’ve considered staying in, but I didn’t like the feeling of being owned. Anyway, I believe every young man would benefit from a compulsory two-year stint in one of the armed services before they settle down. And the ladies too, but only on a volunteer basis, because I’m old-fashioned that way.
🙂
Um, no.
23 years active submarine force, retired 10 years ago.
Not a phucking chance in hell would I want draftees sent to my boat.
All volunteer or nothing.
Maybe if they get drafted and they are screwups they can just send them to build a big beautiful border wall for a few years while training to be patriots and soldiers.
On another note I would like to see the government take better care of our wounded Veterans.
Yes draft everyone up to the age of 55.
No exceptions
That includes Obama
Yes
But only draft libertarians
BB — And I have a couple of stories about young men who were atheletes (one was figuring on a career in baseball) who were propped up their whole lives by helicopter moms and dads. Both had nearly spent their families broke trying to decide what to do with their lives and both went into the military to take advantage of the obscene amount of sign-up money and tuition reimbursement (this was about ten years ago or so). Once there we, the taxpayers, put them through expensive training — one went through the Army medic school — only to have them call mommy about eighteen months in to come and get them. Washouts. And these were kids with a few brains in their heads and lives of privilege. That’s what I’m worried about. Too many kids have been calling the shots for so long I think they’d find it impossible to adjust. They’re just a pain in the behind because they are so much overhead. I think a lot of kids would be attracted to Special Forces until they find out what the name really means. lol!
@ Uncle Al
Please see Article1, Section 8, Clause 12: The Congress shall have Power To …raise and support Armies…
https://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art1frag7_user.html
http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/52/army-clause
And the Supreme Court case that essentially agreed with the Federalists:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/245/366/
While the Declaration and Constitution are essential reading, the framers discussions, letters, journals, and debates over each tiny intricacy and all conceived outcomes is fascinating. But ultimately, in choosing the language they did, it is left up to the Congress of how to go about raising armies. Still, the 13th amendment does not apply here. I think you may have an easier time arguing against conscription in citing the Preamble, “…secure the Blessings of Liberty”, but even there, one runs into, “…provide for the common defense…”
Still, your precise argument was made vociferously in 1917.
From Wikipedia:
In 1917, a number of radicals and anarchists, including Emma Goldman, challenged the new draft law in federal court, arguing that it was a direct violation of the Thirteenth Amendment’s prohibition against slavery and involuntary servitude. The Supreme Court unanimously upheld the constitutionality of the draft act in the Selective Draft Law Cases on January 7, 1918. The decision said the Constitution gave Congress the power to declare war and to raise and support armies. The Court, relying partly on Vattel’s The Law of Nations, emphasized the principle of the reciprocal rights and duties of citizens:
It may not be doubted that the very conception of a just government and its duty to the citizen includes the reciprocal obligation of the citizen to render military service in case of need, and the right to compel it. To do more than state the proposition is absolutely unnecessary in view of the practical illustration afforded by the almost universal legislation to that effect now in force.
NO. Definitely NO.
The Draft is a Demonrat prerogative.
It is, by nature, anti-Freedom, anti-Liberty, and anti-American.
That doesn’t mean that President Trump shouldn’t allow the Demonrats to demand it, only that it shouldn’t come out of his mouth first – let the Statist/Totalitarians accept all responsibility for it.
And if we come to a Draft, make it absolutely Universal – no deferments, no exceptions – even a Retard can serve in some capacity (see: Joe Biden).
izlamo delenda est …
For all I’ve said on the matter, I see no need for conscription at this time. So to answer the survey concisely, Trump should not reinstate the draft.
Moe Tom is headed in the right direction. His idea is not necessarily building the Military, but setting our unfocused, flailing younger generation on a different path. Some suggested a type of civil service function which would be perfect for those who do not want a full draft into military service.
The training that a boot camp would provide would allow these people to see a different side of life than what our schools and media/entertainment have been feeding them. Discipline and the exposure to reality could offer a radically new path for them. Include classes on the Constitution and true American history (both good and bad) would also be necessary.
One item to note: the training should be like what is experienced in the military; but no weapons. If they wash out or continue their anti-American attitudes (left thinking, SJW, etc), I don’t want them to become proficient in handling weapons.
Reinstate the draft, but the only exception/deferment would be for transsexuals who have already transitioned (I.e. been neutered. This will have the effect of driving thousands of cowardly liberals to have themselves mutilated and unable to reproduce. Within a generation we could become a patriotic country again.
My apologies to Uncle Al. I didn’t mean to get all hot and bothered over it.
No apology necessary, @Moe Tom. I’m aware that I am indeed a fcuking asshole intellectual. If I had stayed on the thread I’d be the one apologizing to you.
@Bad_Brad – In balance, Patton was clearly a huge asset to the U.S. war effort. He made some bad mistakes but they don’t detract from the fact that he was both strategically and tactically brilliant.
I think the better plan is the one Heinlein used in Starship Troopers – you don’t get to vote unless you serve. Given the progs’ hatred of the military, that would effectively neuter their political influence.