I just want to clear something up.
The chokehold is not “illegal” in New York City.
I’ve heard this time and time again, written in comment sections, spoken by TV pundits, written in blogs, said on the radio, and they are all wrong.
The NYPD has a departmental policy against its use. That’s it. It’s like telling cops they can’t surf porn at work, even though surfing porn is legal.
Using a chokehold could get you bounced out of your job but no charges can be brought against you for performing it.
There simply is no law saying a chokehold is illegal in NYC. Period.
“Using a chokehold could get you bounced out of your job but no charges can be brought against you for performing it.”
Gee. That’s as clear as mud.
Guess my thinker is on strike.
It wasn’t a chokehold, it was a headlock:
http://nypost.com/2014/08/14/not-a-chokehold-truth-of-the-garner-arrest/
Well, continually wearing your uniform incorrectly can get you bounced out of your job, but it’s not illegal to do so in the sense that you can’t be arrested for it.
Same with a chokehold.
In MLE school, we were taught various compliance techniques such as… joint manipulation, pressure points, oc spray, expandable baton, etc. But chokehold? Nope.
Andrew Branca, author of The Law Of Self Defense, has been explaining this very thing to all comers on twitter.
https://twitter.com/lawselfdefense
It’s been interesting.
Mostly, people have no clue as to what’s what. Confusing NYPD policy with law and thinking a man can still talk while being choked. Right. Mainly people are confused that homicide does not always mean murder. “But they said it was a homicide!”
Recognizing the problem with perception, there’s some guy in the White House and a lot of minions who continuously conflate the same two principles on purpose to their benefit. It’s easy to rile people when gross rhetoric and pictures are two of the three to four tools the box are used. The others being mo’ free money and persuasion at the point of a gun.
And then you have Jon Stewart’s little dis-information rant claiming that a man saying “I can’t breathe” has been choked to death.
http://gothamist.com/2014/12/04/jon_stewart_eric_garner.php
Fur, your “surfing porn” example is not quite apt. The reason the choke hold is not a policy approved method for a take down is because it puts the arrestee in danger, any pressure on the neck or windpipe area can prove fatal. Surfing porn while on duty can be construed as a dereliction but it certainly won’t be the impetus of a wrongful death lawsuit.
Shminky, Bo is wrong. The take down might have been (might) a headlock but he clearly went to a chock hold while they were wrestling on the ground, you can clearly see it on the video.
Oh, and guess what, this is not the first time this officer over stepped his authority;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/04/choke-hold-cop-pantaleo-sued/19899461/
He will eventually end up costing N.Y. 10’s of millions of dollars in settlements. The fault lies partially with the unions, but these bad apples need to identified and removed from the force at the first incident of recklessness.
We were taught to use choke holds back in the 70’s using a forearm or baton. Much has changed since then. You must be careful with strikes to the head; any use of force must be documented. But like BFH said, a violation of departmental rules and regs is not a violation of the Penal law. Different standards, different rules, different penalties.
Having said that, any violation of the dept’s R&R can be used against you in a civil suit. A lot of the posturing by Jackson and Sharpton is really about setting up the deep pockets for the race baiting attorneys. It’s a liberal’s dream, a real industry funded entirely by the taxpayers.
@Boo2 – Guess my thinker is on strike.
Apparently so….pretty fucking clear to me
@Anonymous – because it puts the arrestee in danger,
Whoa!….back the fuck up. The ‘arrestee’ put himself in danger by resisting arrest….the rest of the happenings were follow through.
and what’s with the ‘anonymous’ handle….are you just too lazy or chicken shit to come up with a moniker and use it all the time on this site?
Anonymous,
you are completely missing the point.
The reason the chokehold is against department policy is meaningless to what I’m trying to impart here.
I’m simply giving another example of something that would be against department policy while not illegal.
Anon, Garner was able to breathe and talk through the whole thing and after the officer let him go. I’m not a LEO so have no first-hand experience in the subject, but a quick bit of research on chokeholds made it clear to me that this was not a chokehold. Dietl’s piece was only one confirmation.
BTW, I think this is a horrible tragedy. Garner seems to have been a harmless guy who committed infractions rather than crimes, and never hurt anyone. No question that he should have submitted to the arrest–he knew the drill by then–so in that respect he contributed to his own death. He sure didn’t deserve to die.
Even playing devil’s advocate, I can’t find anything to blame the officer for. Was he supposed to wheedle or slap the much bigger Garner until Garner cooperated? The paramedics, though, are another story. Why the hell didn’t they check the guy out? They should know that overweight people having obvious breathing difficulty need their close attention. (What’s with the incompetent paramedics in NYC, anyway? There have been a number of stories in recent years about them screwing up or not giving a damn.)
Pisses me off that Garner and the thug Brown are lumped together by lefty idiots. They’re not comparable at all. Seeing such a painfully clear difference between the two reassures me that I have not turned blind racist.
Sorry, Fur–I’ve strayed off topic.
Chokehold. Not a chokehold.
Cops have discretion.
Killing a guy over 15 cents worth of lost revenue is sorta like killing a guy for littering.
But I understand your gripe with mendacity. The “pundits” don’t need to lie to stir the pot.
shmink-
this post is a bit of a rant, so it’s like an open thread.
Don’t worry about it.
For the record, I don’t think the guy should be dead. Give him his misdemeanor ticket (for the 33rd time) and have him go downtown and pay his fine.
If he doesn’t pay, and thinks his days of paying fines “ends today!” then choke the shit out of him, I guess.
My complaint about this case is that it’s characterized as racism. It’s not.
Cops are dicks to everyone, and they beat the shit out of everyone.
They’ve been roughing up people before blacks were even 3% of the population.
They used to crack white hippie’s heads open all the time.
It’s a power issue, not a black issue.
Speaking of which, I knew a (white) guy, back in the 70s, who was smoking dope (prolly selling, as well) over at the Unitarian Church in Alexandria. Cops arrested him, took him to the station, and then one of the cops said: “I bet you eat pussy.” And dude replied: “Bet you’ve never seen one.” So they beat the shit outta him. Pretty good beating, too. The cops claimed he was so high he fell down the steps.
Sleeping Giant….
Guess you misunderstood or I guess I didn’t make myself clear.
My comment was “That’s clear as mud” meaning NYPD need to gets their rules more clear. They’re talking out both sides of their mouth with that thinking.
And there are days my thinker doesn’t work. I’m not perfect.
Have a good one.
Sean Hannity (I know I know) is an MMA student, doing very well in it from what I’ve heard. He examined the video and believes that the cop didn’t do any deadly choke-hold or head-lock that would cut off either his larynx nor his major arteries. I think the incredible fury of the moment overcame the black guy into some coronary failure.
Does anyone know if “RAG DOLLING” someone’s ass includes the use of a choke hold?
I assume it does.
Def, Rag Dolling, making someone unconscious while still on their feet. They need to shake a little before they drop. Dana, don’t you have some dirty dishes in the sink or something?
Sorry for the delay replyIng, I was finishing the dishes and had to put on hand lotion. Thanks for the Def. That was prettying much what I thought. So had they picked up this dude and shook him like a rag doll that would have been
RAG DOLLING HIS ASS. got it.
Yea, exactly.