Wait- Not So Fast! – IOTW Report

Wait- Not So Fast!

Wednesday, 16 August 2023, 23:45 MJA Uncategorized 181

Alec Baldwin could be charged again in ‘Rust’ shooting after analysis finds trigger was pulled.

NYPost: Alec Baldwin could be charged again in the fatal shooting of “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after a bombshell new gun analysis concluded that the trigger was pulled — despite the actor’s repeated denials.

Experts in ballistics and forensic testing based in Arizona and New Mexico on Tuesday released a report examining the Colt .45 revolver used on set and markings it left on a spent cartridge.

The analysis found that the trigger had to have been either pulled or depressed.

“Although Alec Baldwin repeatedly denies pulling the trigger, given the tests, findings and observations reported here, the trigger had to be pulled or depressed sufficiently to release the fully cocked or retracted hammer of the evidence revolver,” reads the report led by Lucien Haag of Forensic Science Services in Arizona. more here

181 Comments on Wait- Not So Fast!

  2. Here’s his defense: “ The analysts relied on replacement parts to reassemble the gun, pieces of which were broken during earlier testing by the FBI.”

    And once again, it looks like the FBI tampered with the evidence.

    14

  3. He won’t be charged nor should he be.
    I hate the asshole but if they can’t prove he put live ammo in that gun he should walk.
    I mean we have decades of actors pulling the trigger on all kinds of weapons, including blasters in Star Wars.
    If some dumbass armorer doesn’t do her job, someone dies.
    That bitch needs to pay…

    I know that is unpopular opinion here but deep down you all know I’m right.

    6

  4. “Although Alec Baldwin repeatedly denies pulling the trigger,”

    Man I love the hell out of Single Action Armies. The very gun dip shit committed murder with. And I’ll tell you, the only way they go bang is full cock and press the trigger. Most predictable weapon ever made.

    18

  5. “I know that is unpopular opinion here but deep down you all know I’m right.”

    The Buck stops at Alec. It was his production. The woman killed was with a group that threatened to walk off the production if Alec didn’t drastically improve gun safety. A hot tempered little bitch Alec is. Did he murder her? Inquiring minds and all.

    12

  6. “deep down you all know I’m right”

    Wow, the ego on this guy. This mind set is why he makes so many mistakes. Dude, you are grating. Lie fingernails on a damn chalk board.

    10

  7. I’m fine with Baldwin getting sued into oblivion.
    If they can’t prove he loaded that gun with live ammo, and face it they can’t, he is not responsible* for her death even if he pulled that trigger.
    He is responsible over hiring an idiot armorer that allowed live ammo.

    How many triggers are pulled on a TV/Movie/Playhouse set each year?
    How many actors check for live ammo?
    They don’t have to because it is NOT their responsibility.

    5

  9. So what’s your point? Gabby Hayes never shot anybody either. Neither did John Wayne, The Coop, never on the Virginian, fucking Gun Smoke ran forever. No problems. But let Alec run one production, and he shoots a bitch.
    Checkmate, again

    9

  11. It was never his responsibility to check munitions.
    Just like it wasn’t John Wayne’s.
    Clint Eastwood produced, acted, and directed many of his movies.
    He shot hundreds.
    He hired people for the job of caring for weaponry.
    It wouldn’t have been his problem if he said “make my day” and actually blew someone’s head off…

    Game.Set.Match

    2

  12. Brad, yup, like a J. Stevens single shot shotgun. It has to be loaded, the hammer pulled back, and the trigger pulled to fire. The hammer, even down, can’t hit the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. The hammer sits in its uncocked postiton at quarter cock (cavalry cock) and is blocked by the trigger.

    To be clear the Stevens has no quarter cock in the sense of sear engagement. They don’t have sears. They are hammer and trigger, which makes them very good bird and clay guns.

    7

  14. “It was never his responsibility to check munitions.”

    He hired, and supervised the person that he delegated that responsibility to. You do not understand management. People complained to him about what was going on. He killed one of them. Guilty, hang the crying little bitch.

    9

  16. The action of the gun, single, double, whatever, if he pulled the trigger or not is immaterial.
    He was on a film set where prop guns are “fired” routinely.
    How this gun was loaded with live rounds and ABLE to fire live rounds is what I would like to know.

    Everything else is just MSM noise…

    2

  18. “The action of the gun, single, double, whatever, if he pulled the trigger or not is immaterial.”
    Wow dude, you currently have your head up your ass so far you better unzip your zipper so you can see where you’re going.

    7

  19. Put a fake gun or a real gun in anybody’s hands (who is of sound mind and legal age), loaded or unloaded, and pull the trigger or don’t pull the trigger. If something comes out of that gun and kills, you’re telling me it’s the responsibility of someone other than the person who was holding the gun? Now that’s some shit.

    11

  21. Brad, you know damned well actors and producers don’t double-check everything that goes on in a movie.
    They hire stunt coordinators, armorers, engineers & experts to do the job THEY PAY THEM TO DO!

    You know this yet you hate Baldwin.
    I hate him too but I’m a fair minded individual, not an asshole.

    3

  24. Some of them are real guns. Prop guns as you call them. Prop simply means property, not necessarily fake. This is a case of a real gun, and real ammunition, and a real trigger pull.

    10

  26. “Brad, I could likely teach you a thing or two about guns.”

    I build the mother fuckers for a living you stupid cock sucker. You have a Glock that won’t cycle because you limp wrist it. You ARE A FCKING MORON. I’m out.

    6

  27. “If you are holding a *prop* gun it’s a whole different reality.
    He won’t be charged.”

    You are dumber than a box of rocks. in most cases a prop gun vs a real gun comes down to what it’s loaded with. Big money in people supplying authentic weapons to movie sets. They are all real guns dip shit.

    6

  30. Who’s responsible for the Armorer? Alec. Who shot and killed the woman protesting gun safety. The Armorer. Oh Shit strike that, it was Alec.
    The were using live ammo in the same guns to shoot jack rabbits during down time. Alec new about it. Didn’t do shit to correct it. Then he killed someone that complained about it. Apparently there’s a huge rule for movie sets. No live ammo. I guess that’s understandable.

    7

  33. If one of these hollywood asshat types is sitting in the back of a chauffeured vehicle and demands the driver to fuck the red lights and speed, and ends up wiping out a family of 5, does the hollywood asshat type take the blame? Hell no, the driver takes it in the ass. For the same reason “the help” shouldn’t take the blame when a Hollywood asshat type disregards safety all the same. They are being PAID to be in the movie.

    6

  34. ^^^^ Been that way since gun powder, period end of story. As a ccw if I engage in a gun fight and shoot a by stander what’s my fate? Prison. And Mr Special, Locos pin up boy, goes Scott free. Doesn’t seem fair.

    7

  37. With all the explosions and gunfire in movies over the years to think a producer or actor is responsible to inspect every single point of action is ridiculous as all hell.
    I can’t believe that is being argued here.
    Amazing!

    His mindset was that it was an un-fireable prop gun just like the literal HUNDREDS he has used in his acting career.
    He walks…you guys talk

    1

  40. Talk about moving goal posts.

    I was a telco man. I was responsible for checking all my shit. Buckles, gaffs, holes, tongues, straps, ladders, ropes, brakes, the 188 with an 1188…

    But suddenly my storekeeper was responsible for my death? What a crock of shit.

    10

  45. ^^^^ Now I get it. Loco’s never been high enough in management to understand the difference between someones job, and someones responsibility. Loco, you are a mental juvenile.

    8

  46. I’ve had the upper hand in this argument from the get-go.
    You guys are fighting an already LOST battle.
    I must say it’s quite entertaining…

    Trigger pulls, gun action, prop definition, impersonations, political affiliation means nothing.
    Question: Who is responsible for props & munitions on a film set?
    Answer: The armorer

    “No Loco, the caterer is responsible for whatever anyone eats on set, even if they bring in outside food”

    1

  48. “Just like Trump’s mindset was that the election was stolen.
    Mindset seems to matter in many instances…”

    Every once in a while he let’s it slip. This guy hates Trump. Politically, I can’t figure out where he falls. I’m leaning Bush Republican for obvious reasons. For me at least, he should get no slack on that statement. Up to the rest of you on how welcome you want to make him here. I’m totally done with him.

    7

  51. Were they filming a scene when the shooting took place? Rehearsing, perhaps? WHY did Baldwin point the gun at Halyna Hutchins, a cinematographer, and pull the trigger? What I’m trying to get at is was this a tragic accident that occurred during the production of the movie, or did it happen because Baldwin acted in a negligent manner on the set.

    5

  54. Wild Bill, the bullet went through some dude before killing Halyna.
    It was a tragic mistake that live ammo was in the gun.
    The armorer was responsible for the weaponry on set.
    Period, end of story.

    There are many scenes I’ve watched over the years where the perspective of the gun is right at the camera.
    Have Gun Will Travel…

  57. Seriously, can anyone answer my question HONESTLY?

    “What is the job of the ARMORER on a movie set?”

    A) Fetch coffee for the director
    B) Cater lunch for the cast
    C) Maintain full control & safe usage over prop weaponry, munitions, squibs, etc
    D) Chauffeur actors to the set from their hotels

  58. There’s something happening here
    But what it is ain’t exactly clear
    There’s a man with a gun over there
    A-telling me I got to beware

    I think it’s time we stop
    Children, what’s that sound?
    Everybody look what’s going down

    yeah, it’s a ’60’s protest song by Alec Baldwin types … pussies in High School that couldn’t get dates without submitting to their idiotic social theories …. what do they say now?
    SUBMIT TO AUTHORITY … THE PRIVILEGED RICH ARE AUTHORITY … THE PRIVILEGED RICH DECIDE JUSTICE … IT’S ORDAINED BY THEIR SOVEREIGNTY OF DIVINE RIGHT!

    folks arguing about table scraps are like dogs fighting over the bones tossed on the floor by the Nobles.
    so much wasted effort …. just what ‘the privileged’ anticipate … & receive

    3

  62. Here you go, Loco, I have certified this weapon as a professional in the field of “Maintain full control & safe usage over prop weaponry, munitions, squibs, etc” and put it in your hands.

    Now go point it at someone and pull the trigger, or don’t pull the trigger. What the hell do I care?

    The results of YOUR ACTIONS are now MY RESPONSIBILITY?

    That’s some shit.

    5

  63. Well ecp, why even have an armorer on set?
    Why?
    Hell, her job was supposed to be double-checked by everyone including the custodian no doubt.
    Her job was EVERYONE ELSE’S RESPONSIBILITY!
    Honestly, do you guys ever read what you write?

    It was a film set.
    Many different occupations with different responsibilities.
    Is it the actors responsibility to check if film is in the camera?
    The lighting on the set?
    How about payroll?
    If I worked on the set and my paycheck was miscalculated should I see the caterer?
    Surely it must be their job to check everything since nobody has any specific responsibility according to you guys.

    Make it make sense!

  67. Yes ecp, I’d pull the trigger if called for in the script.
    Especially if I had done it hundreds of times on set like Baldwin has.
    None of the other times had an incident I am aware of.
    THEY had a responsible armorer.
    The key to the whole thing…
    The party responsible.

  69. Yea I’m not buying it. When a weapon goes in your hands you take responsibility. I’m sure you agree with suing gun manufacturers too, and car makers when someone gets run over. Maybe you can find an old set of rusty lawn darts to play with and dodge responsibility there too.

    6

  70. ecp, you are being intentionally obtuse, just like the rest here.
    It was a movie set.
    Fake Western, fake church, fake cowboy, fake gun that the armorer allowed live rounds in.
    Details matter.
    Like I said, don’t any of you become lawyers.
    The system is fucked up enough…

  72. I’m not saying it’s not fucked up. If he’s not found at fault it proves it’s fucked up.

    Because if it happened to you or me, regardless of who certified the weapon, it would be our fault. No doubt about it.

    At the end of the day, he had a loaded weapon and fired it. Period.

    5

  73. Think about it, you guys are suggesting that every TV & movie actor comes out of their trailer and then inspects all firearms handed to them.

    They open them up, check the mag, the blanks, the cylinder, the shotgun, the rifle, the Tommy gun, etc.
    They’ve ALL done this for decades so it must be easy to document.

    I have bridge to sell anyone who believes that.

    0

  74. ecp: “At the end of the day, he had a loaded weapon and fired it. Period.”

    OK, now we have that declared, HOW DID LIVE ROUNDS GET IN THAT WEAPON?
    Kind of VERY IMPORTANT detail do you not agree?
    Did Baldwin put them there?
    I have yet to hear that suggested.
    Who was responsible for that weapon?
    Sigh* The armorer

  75. I remember the Clint Eastwood movie The Gauntlet.
    There was so much shooting in that movie it was music to this teenager’s ear.
    All the weaponry was not Clint’s responsibility.
    He hired and paid people to do that job.
    If all the actors had to inspect every firearm it would have taken a month longer to shoot.

  76. Not going to happen.
    He is rich, he is a democrat hack and is their mouthpiece. They won’t go after their own unless he has some dirt on the Clintons or the Obamas.

    4

  77. I keep saying it’s the responsibility of the person who holds the weapon. The hell with whoever’s job it is to certify this and that. HOW the rounds got in the weapon should be a moot point. It’s not relevant. Just as if I left my weapon unloaded, but my wife filled it up without my knowledge and I took it to the store thinking it was empty and unloaded on the cashier as a joke. Who’s fault is it?

    4

  79. “HOW the rounds got in the weapon should be a moot point. It’s not relevant”

    OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Does your wife work on a movie set?
    Do you normally point an empty gun at people?

    ecp, you sound DRUNK, or perhaps Willys highjacked your screen name…
    WOW!

  81. Yes, she works on the movie set in my backyard, we’ve run the skit 376 times in rehearsal without a problem. I point empty guns at people constantly. Does that change things?

    3

  87. Not sure why he say’s he didn’t pull the trigger.
    Perhaps in the shock of it all he doesn’t remember.
    Or he’s lying.
    Doesn’t matter at all if he didn’t put live rounds in the gun.

    Go load live rounds and make it look like a kids gun, give it to a kid.
    If he kills his friend with it, you are the guilty one.
    He thought it was a toy gun.

    Same thing here.
    Baldwin thought it was a harmless prop.
    Armorer had live rounds in a gun that was supposed to be harmless.
    Period. Case closed.

    1

  89. No, you can’t do that. Baldwin isn’t a kid. What are you DRUNK?

    FFS.

    If I handed you a gun with blanks in it 4000 times for a prop and on the 4001st time it was loaded hot. You didn’t know and it just so happened to be the 1st time you didn’t confirm it and killed someone. Sorry, it’s still your goddamn fault.

    5

  90. Then WHY HAVE AN ARMORER?

    Nope, Baldwin walks as he should.
    It was a movie set with an armorer who’s job is to hand over the weaponry safe to the actor.
    I’m sure some actors have checked their weapons.
    Certainly most do not.
    They may have blanks and fire realistically.
    How do they check for that?
    Not their responsibility.
    Hence THE ARMORER!

    1

  91. Since the claim here is that actors check their guns for live rounds EVERY SINGLE TIME there MUST be reports of some very close calls, right?
    “An actor found live rounds before a take”
    I will have to google that, must have happened many times no doubt…

    I tell you what, when I try and think like a dummy it makes my head hurt!

    1

  93. Did Alec Baldwin’s leftist turd serve in the armed forces? If this were the case, he would have learned to handle weapons correctly (with a big kick in the ass, suddenly, we never make mistakes in handling, even become civilian).
    This pompous asshole thinks that as a Hollywood actor, he is an envoy of God and has no accountability to anyone.

    5

  94. LBS,

    Being technically correct does not absolve Baldwin of anything.

    He does not forfeit his responsibility just because it was “technically” someone else’s job to ensure the gun was safe.

    The gun was in his hands, his lack of judgement allowed him to point it at someone and deoress the trigger based on an assumption.

    His cavalier carelessness killed someone. He did that because he felt no obligation to acknowledge his requirements to care for others well being.

    All real weapons should be treated as if they are chambered and loaded and never, ever under any circumstances pointed at another human.

    As a 2nd and 1LT I was assigned as range safety officer dozens of times.

    If a round accidentally discharged or a troop killed or injured it was my career, the range NCO’s career, and the SQL, PLT SGT, 1SG, and Battery CDR all took permanent hits to their careers/promotions.

    However, guess what? It was still the stupid trooper that took the biggest hit and went to the brig.

    All those layers of responsibility and elaborate supervision did not absolve PVT E Nothing from handling his weapon in a unsafe manner.

    So no, deep down you are incorrect.

    8

  96. ‘the trigger had to be pulled or depressed’

    I’m not feeling like myself today. I feel very low and like its not worth living. I mean, what’s the point when you just have some actor pull you all day? I feel like if I get any lower that something may go bang. Oh look, here comes that smartass guy to fondle me again, this may be the end for meeee

    6

  98. Never-ending arguments between Brad and Loco, seasoned with work-from-home ads. I absolutely believe in free speech and have bitten my tongue (fingers?) for months, but please– why don’t you two exchange email addresses and save the rest of us from this? I used to love this site because of the pithy, spot-on comments.

    9

  99. It seems to me that one of the early reports of the cri…. er incident was that Mr. baldwin was “fanning” the hammer when the revolver fired, which if this were the case the poor trigger would most certainly have been depressed.
    FJB

    4

  100. @ Brown Eyed Girl at 7:29 am,
    Once I see it begin I simply skip to the end to see if anyone one else has something…… unless I am extremely bored lol.
    FJB

    4

  101. Any time anyone handles a gun, even if it’s a goddamn toy that ejects projectiles, is responsible for what comes out of it.

    Anyone who would project responsibility on anyone else after improperly using a tool is indeed as well a tool.

    4

  102. Who is responsible to follow these Basic rules?
    How many and what Rules were ignored and by whom?
    Now tell me who’s responsible without the bullshit arguments and personal venom.

    Firearm Rules to Live By
    Make these rules part of your character, and burn them into your consciousness, the chances of having a mishap with a firearm is extremely remote.

    1. All guns are always loaded.

    2. Never let your muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.

    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

    5

  103. Had a SNS length comment almost complete and lost it while checking what might be available on “Slip Hammering” on the net.

    To avoid the laughter it might engender, I’ll set aside “RESPONSIBILITY.”

    Believe I put it in one of the other threads that it is possible to fire the gun without pulling the trigger. While I seriously doubt that a “Prop Gun” would have the modification to do it. In the stories by Zane Grey he notes that some of his gun fighter characters used slip guns.

    Without the modification if you hold the tigger depressed the gun will fire for each and every cocking of the hammer. Depending on the skill set and amount of time put into practicing, it can be faster than the semi auto pistol can actually physically function. Then too if you modify the the gun with the trigger mechanism permanently “depressed” You no longer need to even put the trigger finger into the tigger guard.

    There are a number of modifications to the guns used in cowboy matches and believe I’ve also posted some of the links to show how fast these guns can cycle. “Short Stroking” the rifles is quite common and the same can be done to the single action pistols.

    So while many of the comments above might be correct there are ways to make guns function as not intended.

    Again, did asshole have a modified pistol that would fire without pulling the trigger? Probably not and then we get back into the responsibility thing that I said I would ignore.

    Cato gave to end all comment at 8:46 AM

    Glad I stopped by before the weekend…

    2

  107. Hey Loco, I hope this was not lost on you, from a previous comment;

    “Up to the rest of you on how welcome you want to make him here. I’m totally done with him.”

    Wow!!! Cancel Culture at its finest.

    Is there a more insipid gutless practice that the left utilizes for effect than
    trying to silence opinions they do not agree with through canceling tactics? Fomenting the mob, or in this case, the IOTW readers, to punish you, not make you welcome, because he is losing the argument, talk about weak sauce. The trifecta of progressive cowardice; resorting to name-calling, bailing out when pressed for receipts, and canceling dissenting opinions, are all in full bloom here.

    As for the topic, it appears that the consensus opinion is that the next time Kyle Larson climbs into his race car for his next race, he better damn sure go over every inch of that car before he starts, he better check all the electrical, the brakes, the instruments, the steering, everything motor and power train related, every inch of the chassis for structural integrity, essentially every moving part that goes with the ride, because he is responsible. It matters not that he has an entire team made up of engineers and mechanics, whose very job is to make sure that car is safe and properly maintained for every race, nope, if something goes wrong mechanically and an injury/death occurs, he was the one that got behind the wheel, stepped on the gas, and pointed that car down the track. He is the driver, it is on him.

    4

  108. Again, without going over ALL the above comment (with apologies if this duplicates), I believe this was the FIRST job as the armourer in charge and worked as assistant previously. So Baldwin could hire on the cheap and looking at her pics I suspect she has more time spent getting tats than reviewing or learning how the guns work. Then too she would have been easily intimidated to “let some things slide” if pushed the god like producer Baldwin. So even if she knows and understand all the rules in play, would she enforce them against the wishes of her boss?

  109. Yes Rich, I caught that.
    Sadly it was not too shocking to see.
    I didn’t choose my opinion to go against the grain here.
    I knew it would cause consternation but didn’t even consider someone trying to cancel me.
    I have my beliefs and unless proven wrong I tend to stick to them.
    I do like when someone offers a different perspective I hadn’t considered.

    One of the problems with this topic is that it takes place on a movie set.
    Yet folks here are applying gun-range rules.
    On a gun range you should assume all guns are loaded.
    On a movie set you can assume all guns are non-firable props.
    How many sets have live rounds in use?
    That said, I would ALWAYS double-check my Star Wars Blaster if I were them…

    1

  111. That is what I hope for Rich.
    It was a terrible, preventable accident.
    The families involved deserve compensation.

    I would still like to know a whole lot more details about the gun, the live rounds, the timeline, the chain of custody, the scene being shot, the script, what the director was calling for, where the armorer was during said scene, covid protocols that made masking a priority over everything else, etc.

  112. This new standard is going to be interesting.
    If you go to an amusement park this Summer, be prepared to inspect all the rides prior to boarding.
    Bungee jumping or zip-lining?
    YOUR responsibility to check all cables, ties, harnesses, etc.
    In addition, the structural integrity of any platform, support beam, bridge, etc.
    I suggest doing spot checks with proper radiographic & ultrasonic equipment…
    Just because trained professionals are paid to do this, ultimately it’s YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!

    1

  113. Good God, you don’t own the rollercoaster or the race car. You’re not holding it and pulling the trigger, you’re IN it. Those tools are not designed to kill.

    Wow. The mentality of those who would have serfs 🤪

    3

  114. Loco,

    Ain’t got the time right now to go though all the comments above (maybe the weekend when I pretend to be gainfully employed). Still, can’t believe all of your questions haven’t been covered above. This one has been hashed and rehashed numerous times.

    If memory serves the “prop gun” is/was a fully functioning Single Action Army (Colt 1873 or clone thereof if you will). Have never seen the “timeline” because my understanding was Baldwin was “playing with or practicing” and not shooting a scene. Should not have been allowed to be playing with the gun (see previous comment). They weren’t filming and don’t believe what he was doing was called for by anyone at the time he did it. Also don’t believe the armorer was even present which is another “no no.” Aiming the gun at two individuals (one behind the other) by now I would hope has been covered ad nauseam.

    The live rounds should never have been allowed anywhere on the set. Thought that an earlier thread had someone posting all the rules and precautions as called for, but maybe that was another blog. They showed that chain of custody was not enforced and was why many had already walked or complained about safety. Custody of weapons by anyone besides the armorer calls for he/she to be present to take custody of the weapons after their use. Many things wrong with this one…

    Again, ad nauseam set aside all the coulda, woulda, shoulda with the bottom line as I’m confident has been beaten to death above is he should not have pointed the weapon and caused the discharge when not even being filmed for production.

    By the time I get back to this one it will be page four or lower and not even sure you’ll see this response …

    1

  116. ^^^ I quit another website because of a fucking narcissist and his toadies. I’m paying for this one, not much, but I guess it’s better to disengage than stoke the egos.

    2

  117. I remember the Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode “Bang! You’re Dead”

    It was a good episode that pointed out how serious it is to store firearms properly.
    In it, 5 year old Billy Mumy finds his uncles LOADED revolver and traipses all over town pointing it at different people.

    I’m certain the 5 yr old Billy Mumy inspected that gun THOROUGHLY prior to every scene he was in.
    He had to know what a live round looks like, right?
    Imagine if he had killed Alfred Hitchcock?
    He would have gone to jail for a long time and not had the stellar child acting career.
    What’s that you say?
    “Loco, he was a child, no way would he have been held responsible.”

    Nope, as you guys have told me, no such thing as an extenuating circumstance…
    He pulled the trigger, HE GOES TO JAIL!
    PERIOD!

    1

  119. I also remember here in Nevada when a 13 yr old girl was shooting an automatic weapon at a desert range, the recoil caused her to lose control and she accidently killed the instructor.
    Shot him in the head.
    He was the DeFacto “armorer” and his mistake or inattention cost him his life.

    Did she go to jail?
    No
    Was she punished?
    No?
    Why not, she pulled the trigger, and as I have been reliably informed by the experts here at iotw…
    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EXTINUATING CIRCUMSTANCES…PERIOD!

    That little girl got away with MURDER!!!

    1

  121. Well you gotta admit there LBS, given the laws of probability, both examples are intended to provoke a reaction of fear (real or imagined) from one party’s point of view. With that in mind, in order to provoke the desired flight response, one must imply an impending death scenario. So I propose that in the case of both prop guns and roller coasters, designing for death was at least a consideration in order to make the simulation as scary as possible.

    1

  122. LocoBlancoSaltine AT 7:31 PM

    And my father, at 13, walked into a Montgomery Wards and purchased a .22 bolt action rifle, stamped with Montgomery Wards on the barrel, for $13. Walked right the proud owner of a new .22 LR rifle. I still have that rifle.

    Something very serious has changed since then.

    3

  123. @Dadof4

    I have my grandfather’s .22 he used to take to school so he could shoot dinner on the way home. He also taght me to shoot with that same gun. Yeah sumpin’s gone horribly wrong since then

    3

  128. “Prop guns are NOT designed to kill, Mr. Truckbuddy…
    Just like rollercoasters.”

    Well here we are. Cap’n, sometimes you’re funny as farts, but when you are wrong – and you’ve been wrong since your first post in this thread – you refuse to relinquish one iota of detail in your egotistical rants. It’s almost embarrassing, I feel for ya. Maybe it’s that you never get out of your ivory tower? 🤔

    I think an authority like Brad who makes guns ought to know where distinctions lie. It should have been left there. I’m not the only one that respects those who DO over those who talk. You have no real knowledge of firearms, and it shows:

    A “Prop” gun capable of firing live ammunition, is by definition NOT a prop gun. It is a REAL gun. Simply put, all standards regarding real guns apply. Gotcha! 🤣 I was hoping you’d fall for the trap.

    Rollercoasters and Race cars are apples to this orange.

    Defending that scumbag Baldwin, unless he is your relative, is reprehensible at best, and pathetic at worst.

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  130. “A prop weapon, such as a gun or sword, can be a replica, a real weapon or a real weapon which has been modified to be non-functional.”

    In this case Baldwin had every right to think it was at the very least a non-functional gun.
    And for certain that it wasn’t loaded with LIVE ROUNDS.

    The man has used how many non-functional guns in his career?
    Likely dozens or more.

  135. Live rounds DID make it into that weapon, Hence the death and the wounding. One person pulled the trigger on a functional weapon with live rounds and that was Alec Baldwin. Alec wasn’t shooting a NASCAR car or a roller coaster or my left boot. Those things CAN’t shoot live rounds. Ask me how I know?

  138. Apparently the projectiles were physically placed in said firearm.

    The how, in this case, is easy. If the firearm in question could fire live rounds, then one must concede that the idea to “go out back and shoot a few targets” was probably floated. Given this was a movie set, there is a high probability that drugs were in proximity of the set in question.

    In short, fucked up people do fucked up things (intentional or not), and mistakes and/or oversights are definitely made. And that is a fact.

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  141. The how is going to be a stupid reason. Something along the lines of, “we were fucked up, passed out, and shit went down hill from there”.

    Down South, we call that “Hey ya’ll, watch this”. More times than not, that phrase does not bode well.

    Life is neither fair or just. It jus is.

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  142. JB_Honeydew

    It doesn’t matter how. Baldwin was responsible. Him pulling a trigger on a hot gun is actually a totally different matter. What’s the first thing you do if someone hands you a gun? Just because Baldwin and his defenders here don’t no jack shit about handling a guns does not change the responsibility/gun safety rules/law. As I know you know, once you squeeze that trigger you own what the end result is. Baldwins hatred of guns, his dismissal of safety caused this and he should pay the price. Just like us normies.

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  143. Ultimately it wasn’t a prop gun and Baldwin pulled the trigger. If he hadn’t pulled the trigger with live rounds in the wheel the weapon wouldn’t have fired and then nobody would have died and another wounded.

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  144. “You considering Brad an authority tells me pretty much everything.”

    I’ve been carrying a gun legally for over twenty years. I’ve had a class 3 FFL for 15 years. I designed and machine our own billet receivers for the AR-15 and the 308 (LR-25) platform. I’ve sold over 5,000 complete rifles. With the exception of the last 10 months I averaged 2,000 rounds down range a month.
    I do know a little.

    4

  146. No doubt, Baldwin is responsible. If I were to show up to my mechanic’s shop to pick up my truck while being completely hammered and I killed a few pedestrians on the way home…it wouldn’t really matter that the brake job was done wrong. I was the one driving. I didn’t mean to, but yet I still did. The blood is still on my hands, and because self defense cannot be claimed, a penalty must be paid.

    3

  150. Prop is just short for property. The word doesn’t mean fake.

    “A prop, formally known as (theatrical) property, is an object used on stage or screen by actors during a performance or screen production. In practical terms, a prop is considered to be anything movable or portable on a stage or a set, distinct from the actors, scenery, costumes, and electrical equipment.”

    3

  155. Some prop guns are real guns modified to cycle blanks, some are real guns with no modifications, some are just rubber guns, some are CO2 operated (blowback mechanisms to appear to be cycling casings), some are airsoft, or capguns, or whatever that are manipulated in post-production.

    1

  159. Look, very few “Prop Guns” for westerns. It may be a c budget movie with some has been egotistical actor calling the shots. But you know what they pay attention to. The accuracy of the time period weapons. I actually looked into getting into this biz about 15 years ago. You need one hell of an arsenal and some of those weapons are hard to come by. Speaking specifically about the westerns, those are all real guns. You can load them with blanks, or wax bullets, but they’ll still fire a 45 long colt just fine. That’s a real weapon. Not a prop gun. Prop guns are non lethal.

    1

  160. ^^^^ The bigger question should be why IRS agents are at the gun range in the first place.

    Wrangling adding machines and going over ledgers is not exactly hazardous work requiring the need to carry.

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  172. I’m gonna type slow so Loco might get this. They had a real gun on the set so the gun could look real in the movie. Live rounds should not have been in the real gun and Alec Baldwin should not have pulled the trigger. Who ever put live rounds in the gun is complicit in the crime and Alec Baldwin is guilty of criminal homocide. Read it slowly Loco.

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  173. So everything must be operational in order to look real in a movie?
    I told you guys, be careful with those Star Wars blasters.

    Plus all those tanks in WWII movies, it’s a wonder they can find that many still around?

    Criminal homicide?
    Bwaahaha!
    Better head back to law school former anon…

  176. There are plenty of real tanks still around, and even biplane aeroplanes! and shit, yo!

    They didn’t use a real nuke in Dr Strangelove… and Slim Pickens didn’t really ride it. And the bomber cockpit was fake, although they did get in some trouble over it.

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  181. May God have mercy on my soul for returning to this thread like a dog to his vomit. It is the weekend and when I get caught up. Also probably “talking to myself” as all the players are long gone and probably not see this. Already on page five. Still…

    Let me start by pissing in Loco’s wheaties. Thread goes to Brad on points.

    Starting with the “prop gun thing.”

    The ONLY time a “prop gun” is non-functional is when it does not call for it to be fired in the production/filming. Talking about movies here, as in theater production they can get away with starter pistols and blanks. If it’s being fired it’s REAL. (Also, set aside any mods to the guns as the Prop House would be very unhappy with anyone modifying the guns as supplied by them.) Clone, 1st, 2nd or third generation Colt, the gun was REAL. It could only have fired if he pulled the trigger when taking the hammer to full cock or having already held the trigger depressed when cocking the hammer.

    Again I say as what memory serves going back to the reporting on this one close to its occurrence, Baldwin was playing with and was not rehearsing. Unless you call his own personal wanting to play with the gun as “familiarizing/rehearsing.” Other players from what scene could have been carried out in that set weren’t present. Just the unfortunate non-players and crew as discussing scenes, camera angles, etc., to come.

    Again, the rules/procedures to be followed were posted on one of these threads and showed that they were NOT being followed. Baldwin’s production and him telling the “first time in charge Armorer” that he wanted to handle the weapon should not have been allowed IN THAT SETTING, if she was even consulted before he got his hands on the gun.

    There’s plenty of blame to go around on this one. You may speculate as to whether he was set up by someone loading the weapon. But the fact that they allowed live ammo onto the set and ignored chain of procedure for handling the weapons is on both the Armorer and Baldwin, especially with threats of people walking because of safety issues. If playing or handling the weapon while not following normal procedure he damn well should have checked it himself.

    And finally, as has been pointed out numerous times, if you’re holding the gun and pulling the trigger, it’s on you. Especially when there’s no reason to be pointing it at another human being. Unless you think it’s cute to do this with someone you’ve had disagreement with in production. Do all players check their weapons after being handed to them? What does it say about you if you don’t check it yourself?

    So, if I understand the beginning of this mess as he could be charged again if he pulled the trigger, then yes. He could be charged again. No other way it could have fired. Will it happen? Probably not.

    This comment is ALL Mr. Big’s fault as he used to limit the time on comments being accepted. “Comments Closed”

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