91 Comments on So, Do You Side With Freedom Caucus, or Trump?
Freedom Caucus! Trump and Bannon played a very dangerous game, close to the edge of the board — but they won.
Ryan’s bill, crafted by the insurance industry was crap. Probably, at least, Part III would never have happened.
Now, as we near the implosion of Obamacare, Dems will come on board and a genuine replacement can be crafted.
Best of all, Bannon wants Ryan out of the Speaker’s chair by April — and we have only one week to go. ….Lady in Red
I’m not too happy with any of them right now. I would be happy if Trump would have said to send me the last repeal bill that you sent to Obama, I’ll sign then we can clean up this mess. Hearing a politician tell about what we are going to do in phase 2, then in phase 3, rings so hollow to me they shouldn’t have even wasted their breathe.
Freedom Caucus! I will never support a “secret” bill from any party. Throw it out and start over.
He sides with the Freedom Caucus, as well. This is a game, ffs, to force everyone to get aboard. That’s why he’s also gone after Dems. Be patient.
This choice is not a good one, Paul “rattlesnake” Ryan is the biggest loser. He was able to keep his no accomplishment career intact.
Trump comes out of this, in my opinion, unscathed politically, if people just refer to what he said.
He said Obamacare would collapse whether he did something or not.
As Page O’Turner keeps shouting in the wilderness, everyone is focusing on INSURANCE when they should be focusing on medical costs.
It’s two different things and medical costs are being ignored.
False choice, as Zeroh notes above. If I have to pick, I’ll side with the FC over the Rs any day of the week.
The losers here are the Rs in general and Ryan in particular.
Thank you Rand Paul! That shit sandwich Paul Ryan wanted, stunk and would have failed, leaving the blame on Trump. Obamacare is still Obama and Pelosi’s crap sandwich now.
Now it’s time to move on (without Ryan) and get it right.
Ryan lost me when he refused to stand up to that dip-shit Biden’s bad behavior in their vice- presidential debate.
This is all just so much sausage being made.
Going down in flames is not the end of the world.
Trying to do it on the anniversary was stupid.
Pick up where you left off and then (horrors) invite the Democrats in to help with it and DO YOUR FOOKING JOBS!
Work until you can work no more.
Papa Trump will not babysit these assholes forever.
Trump, I made less than one minute. Let’s get to WORK? That ship has sailed. To late. You missed the window idiot. The Republicans are the Obstructionist party, they even obstruct themselves. They play a percentage game, meaning 99.9% of the population falls for there Bull Shit. I was a big Rand Paul fan, even posted some nice things about him here. Thanks to Steven Tucker I learn that all that bull shit about him not being able to read the Bill was Bull Shit. Theater. We need to vote everyone of these bastards out and replace them with non attorney business men. The Media enables them to play this game. I’m beginning to really buy into this Uni Party Angle.
I’m not sure why, or what game Trump is playing. but it’s hard to believe he wanted his name attached to this polished turd of Ryan’s.
if the Freedom Caucus didn’t stand up & fight we’d have Obamacare Lite w/ more chicanery-to-come from the senate rinos
So, Do You Side With Freedom Caucus, or Trump?
Freedom Caucus. Trump in the end will get what he wants, be patient people. It’s the Art of the Deal.
I’m just really curious how many people here knew what was in that legislation. I’m also curious how many people here realize a repeal was impossible. They didn’t have the votes even under reconciliation. They had to remove the “Repeal” clause to pick up the Medicaid Fours vote. This entire thing sucks and Trump will never be able to get anything through that swamp. I hope if Trump runs into this more time he steps down. What’s the point?
BOTH.
My intuition tells me Trump’s “support” of Ryan/Ryan’s Bill was a head fake (think: Mafia kiss of death), so he can achieve later something closer to what he wants/promised.
The Koch-supported “Freedom Caucus” was right in saying no to this GOPe abomination, which would have only conveyed OWNERSHIP of ALL OF ObamaCare’s NEGATIVES from the Dems to TRUMP and REPUBLICANS.
The Koch-supported “Freedom Caucus”
The Globalist Trump Hating Koch brothers threatened to pull any financial support from anyone that voted for this Bill. Do you think the Koch brothers had Americas best interest at heart or their own?
This is like asking me who won the game at the bottom of the first inning.
Freedom Caucus and Trump. They are not exclusive. FC was only doing what they promised their constituents. So is President Trump.
Paul Ryan is only doing what profits him.
I don’t trust anyone that says, “I’ll only put it in halfway. Trust me.” After Phase 1 was passed, we would never have seen anything else.
I don’t care if full repeal was possible or not. It would have gone thru the House, if it came apart in the Senate, so be it. I’m not impressed with political gamesmanship but if the libs would have been on record blocking this it would not have benefited them. Instead we have paul ryan looking like the inept rino that he is. And as I have said, we have plenty of other problems that we can deal with, let this collapse on its own.
TO Bad_Brad
I don’t disagree with your skepticism of the Kochs.
In the sense that, unlike rejecting almost ALL that Obama/Dems stand for,
I still think those Caucus members were right to reject this bill…
(in spite of what you or I may agree/disagree with that the Kochs support).
What is VERY clear is that neither side made their case to the public and the public doesn’t trust congress critters to be truthful. When in doubt, settle for the devil you know than the unicorn a politician is promising.
The deal was REPEAL. Ryan did a lousy job of selling his position to the American voter.
I don’t trust any one of them until they actually follow through on their campaign pledges – including Obamacare. The bill under consideration did not measure up to their rhetoric. I trust all of them even less today.
By the way – the bill all Republicans voted for in 2015 to repeal Obamacare was introduced on March 8 by Jim Jordan and is sitting in committee.
You have to ask yourself WHY Ryan didn’t lead with that. How could any Republican explain to their constituents why, when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama they voted “yes” but when they knew Trump would sign it they voted “no”.
The bill provides for 2 years to unwind Obamacare so no one can claim they’re dumping people to die in the street.
As far as I’m concerned the government should stay out of all our business that does not concern our borders, roads, or national security. Everything else could be better off if left to private enterprise.
“The bill provides for 2 years to unwind Obamacare so no one can claim they’re dumping people to die in the street.”
Gee, that sounds familiar.
Everyone should read the links Czar posted – especially the second one. @Czar – I’m a sucker for anything with a Milton Friedman video.
Page,
“You have to ask yourself WHY Ryan didn’t lead with that. How could any Republican explain to their constituents why, when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama they voted “yes” but when they knew Trump would sign it they voted “no”.
Because the Rs don’t actually want to be rid of the power structure created by Obamacare. They’d rather keep it and have it fall BACK into the hands of Leftists when they take power again (and they will) instead of destroying it.
I think President Trump walked away from a bad deal. He’ll be back
Trump never should have picked Paul Ryan in his Final Four bracket…
You don’t run on a repeal them replace platform then try to shove a Paul Ryan Bill down our throat . I trust Paul Ryan as much as I trust Nancy Pelosi. I don’t necessarily think this hurts trump it just gives the media more ammo.
Trump is clean on this one. All the Prez does is sign (or not) what Congress brings to him.
And if you vote 60 times to repeal under Obama and 0 pounder under a president who would actually sign this bill then it really it’s time to drain this swamp
It all really doesn’t matter.
The 9th Circus would have found whatever passed to be unconstitutional.
Sad.
But I side with FC, up to a point.
Repeal, THEN replace. If needed.
In the end Freedom Caucus, Trump and the people Win.
Czar,
Listen to this Jack Ass from this morning. Keep in mind if he would have voted for ANY version, the Kotch Brothers would have pulled all their money away from him. It’s a freaken bad joke and we are the losers.
i side with Trump, because Trump knows a whole lot more than he is letting on.
dumb like a fox
@BBrad ~ I’m curious. why are you so vociferously defending the passage of this particular pile of excrement?
I get the feeling that you don’t care what was passed, just so Trump gets something in the ‘win’ column. no matter how much ketchup you put on it, a shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich
corrections on my assumptions are always welcome
I didn’t get why the rush? What’s the hurry? Why not spend some time laying out the particulars to the American people of the good bad and ugly of new bill vs the old bill. Do health insurance rallies and sell it. This seemed very cloak and daggerish so I was instantly suspect of what they were doing.
I like how Trump summarized the bill going down in flames- and put it back on the Dems.
The repeal needs better “optics” dare I say that.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Do you know what was in that Bill and how it worked? Yes or no.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
If you stick to the FACTS, it was the only shot we had at sneaking something thru that had an impact. We missed a huge opportunity. Tell me where I’m wrong.
You do realize Reconsideration window closes in May. After that the need 8 or 9 more votes than they need now. Which they have no hope of getting.
Reconciliation.
The Republicans had seven years to perfect the proposed bill (at the same time Boehner and Ryan and the RINOs they led voted with Obama to fund Obamacare).
Ryan knew after the election it was a key issue Trump wanted done.
He knew the time frame, he knew of the objections, he knew what Trump wanted and he knew what the voters wanted.
Why did Ryan ignore all the signs of defeat? Arrogance or foolishness?
To err is human, but to persevere in error is only the act of a fool.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
I am WITH President Trump and AGAINST the “Freedom Caucus”. Unless of course ANY Conservative can tell me what they disagreed with in the bill. I address this question to the VERY few Conservatives who actually read the bill.
What if anything in the American Health Care Act did you disagree with and if so why?
1.) Repealing the Individual Mandate which requires those who do not purchase overpriced Obamacare health insurance to pay a penalty to the IRS.
2.) Repealing the Employer Mandate so that employers can once again offer FULL TIME jobs instead of restricting their job applicants to 29.5 hours in order to avoid paying for overpriced health Obamacare health insurance.
3.) Repealing the Obamacare subsidies, which would be the first time in U.S. history that we actually repealed an entitlement.
4.) Placing per capita caps on Medicaid enrollees.
5.) Block granting Medicaid to the states.
6.) Reducing the deficit
7.) Cutting spending by $1.2 trillion
8.) Repealing $600 billion in Obamacare TAXES
9.) Re-creating state High Risk Health insurance pools (which is how health insurance risk in the individual marketplace it was managed for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law)so that we can once again removed the sickest 5% (responsible for 50% of costs) from the healthy pool in order to once again lower premiums for those who are healthy. Remember how much lower health insurance premiums were BEFORE Obamacare?
10.) Granting $100 billion over 9 years to the states to ensure that every state has a well funded high risk health insurance pool so that the 5% who are the sickest are guaranteed coverage. Keep in mind that whilst that may seem like a lot of money, it is MUCH less than the $54 billion we will spend just THIS YEAR on Obamacare subsidies.
11.) Repealing Community Rating so that young people pay much less for health insurance than they do now, thereby reincentivizing them to REENTER the health insurance pool and lower costs for everyone.
12.) Providing tax CREDITS (not “subsidies” or “entitlements”) so that you can KEEP more of your OWN money so that health insurance costs less for your and your family.
13.) A one year 30% underwriting load applied to those who do not keep consistent health insurance coverage and instead wait until they are sick to buy health insurance, thereby increasing premiums for everyone. This also was how risk was managed in the individual health insurance market for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law.
Keep in mind that ALL of the aforementioned features of the “First phase” of the American Health Care Act were included in the budget reconciliation bill and would have passed the muster of the Senate Parliamentarian because they were all budgetary in nature. As such, they could have passed with only 51 Republican votes (not the normal 60 votes to pass a bill). In other words without the help of ONE Democrat. As a reminder we need 8 Democrat Senator’s to vote WITH US in the Senate in order to reach the 60 vote threshold for a FULL repeal bill. We don’t have ONE Democrat vote, let alone EIGHT.
Let’s say PHASE TWO “would never really happen” meaning Dr. Price just simply refuses to exercise his power as our new H.H.S. Director and REFUSES to roll back additional mandates and regulations on health insurers thereby lowering premiums even more.
Let’s say “PHASE THREE” (further legislation) “would never really happen” because we will never get 8 Democrats to agree on repealing the rest of Obamacare by reaching the 60 vote threshold. Which by the way I find hard to believe after we STARVE Obamacare of it’s primary funding sources which would have been done in ‘phase 1’ (Individual and Employer mandate repeal, and repeal of $600 billion in taxes) which would result in Obamacare dying MUCH faster and resulting in more willingness for Democrats to support an alternative.
ISN’T JUST PHASE ONE BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE NOW WHICH IS A DISFUNCTIONAL BANKRUPT MEDICAID PROGRAM? AN ALMOST NONEXISTANT INDIVIDUAL HEALTH INSURANCE MARKET AND THE HIGHEST HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS IN AMERICAN HISTORY?
Someone PLEASE tell me where I’m wrong. I’ll wait…
And Phase Three would have been one hell of a transparent vote. Sticking it right back on the Democrats.
@C. Steven – the biggest problem I see with your analysis is that the federal government is still “in charge” of health care, stealing taxpayer dollars and doling them out as bureaucrats see fit on something the Constitution provides the federal govt. with no authority to be involved in at all.
Most of the people speaking out in favor of this bill seem to be starting with the misguided notion that government SHOULD be in charge of health care. I disagree with the general principle of the whole idea.
@BBrad ~ you didn’t answer my question
… & yes, I did read the bill … nothing more than Obolacare Lite IMO…. States could still give Medicaid to illegal aliens, no tax credits for out-of-pocket expenses, Insurance companies could charge older payers 5 times higher than younger payers (not like Obozocare, which only overcharges them 3 times higher), same silly 26 year-olds on their parent’s insurance, same old pre-existing conditions, private plans still make everyone pay for maternity services, breast exams, pre-natal care, etc., & abortions are still paid for ‘in the health of the mother’
government-mandated health care is enslavement any way you cut it
What we don’t know about “RyanCare” far outweighs what we know. I do know that Paul Ryan is in way over his head. He hates Trump and always will. Better to walk away from a Turkey Buzzard than bring it home to mamma.
I’m with Claudia.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Please refer to phase 2. And most of what you listed is not accurate.
@Bubba’ Brother ~ NAILED IT!
@BBrad ~ ‘inaccurate’? … really???
where did I read this? … oh yeah, Section 103 (right in the beginning!)
clinics can provide abortions
“(I) if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest; or
(II) in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself”
… should I go on?
… & ‘phase 2’ is a pipe-dream … as Mr. Tucker says “let’s say…. “
… & you still didn’t answer my question
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I’ll be back with you in a couple hours. Working today.
@CStevenT I wish you were out there explaining it. Rush got on board with step by step of the bill on the day of the vote if I recall correctly. The way it was presented was terrible. Like it’s needs a redo like the immigration pause. I don’t know. It’s disheartening regardless. I remember way back as twentysomthing I had a policy for $38 a month and I shopped around for it. It’s stupid we can’t get back to that…
As I understand it, Steve Bannon hammered-out a compromise with the freedom caucus that made the bill acceptable to them, but then he lost the Medicaid Four. So I choose trump AND the Freedom Caucus.
Part of the swamp is on the right, engulfing speaker Ryan. I say suck this swamp dry of the many money influences that our politicians are exposed too. That will drain the swamp at its source fountain…
The primary problems with this bill were guaranteed issue and utilizing credits rather than deduction. Credits are a giant Invitation to illegals. Granting giant credits means the Fed is essentially buying your policy.
The Koch Bros AND Paul Ryan-o along with his NeoCon/Corporatist fellow “Republicans,” should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER be trusted or worked with.
Kill it with 🔥 🔥 🔥.
@Illustr8r I know RIGHT? Rush waits to the DAY OF THE VOTE to begin explaining it? WHAT THE HELL?!! Maddening!
MolonLabe, returning to a 5 to 1 ratio instead of a 3 to 1 ratio is a GOOD thing. 3 to 1 is referred to as “Community Rating”. It FAILED in 12 states before the Obama adminstration made it a federal statute under Obamacare. By forcing insurers to charge older people no more than 3 times what they charge younger people, you end up driving UP premiums for younger people exponentially and that in results drive them OUT of the risk pool. We NEED young and healthy people back IN the risk pool. Be reverting BACK to a 5 to 1 ratio, younger people will pay much less for health insurance because the insurance company can now charge older people up to 5 times what they charge younger people, this means that younger people will have much lower premiums. In other words, the BASE premium (which is where young people’s premiums are is much smaller). This I believe was one of the most commonly misunderstood portions of the AHCA.
Also MolonLabe, that exemption wording for Abortion ‘To save the life of the mother (and victims of rape and incest) is part of the Hyde amendment which was a bi partisan piece of legislation ensuring that women in those aforementioned situations would not be barred from receiving an abortion. To repeal that would take 60 votes and there is no way in hell that would ever happen because the Hyde amendment has been supported by both parties for many years and there is ZERO political will to repeal it.
@MolonLabe, Lastly, there is no ‘government mandated health care’. No one was forced to buy ANYTHING and because the AHCA allowed employers and individuals to once again purchase health insurance that does not cover abortions (other than those situations referred to in the Hyde amendment) more religious freedom was granted to Americans, not less.
Freedom of choice seems to only apply when you choose an abortion……not healthcare. Free Enterprise is no longer an option in Government run healthcare.
Congress fixing problems they created by BIGGER Government.
Fools.
I’m with Trump all the way, except I won’t let him grab my cat.
I have discussed obamanocare with several physicians. They say it has ruined health care.
I think Phase II would have happened. There is only one person required. There would be lawsuits, but there will anyway. Phase III is highly unlikely. Unrecognized is that as you repeal different sections of the ACA, the control of “The Secretary” where it might be mentioned in that part of the legislation, would also be gone. I perused Price’s published health plan a few months ago. I really like the portion where individuals have a plan with their physician – that completely cuts out the insurance industry. That looks like a big winner, and I’m sure he would be motivated to institute that in any way he could. Twila Brase discussed these same ideas in The Wedge health plan.
We have the situation now that many people have swallowed the notion that repealing the ACA is somehow “Taking away Coverage” for many people. IT ISN’T taking away coverage… It’s taking away THE GIFT of PAYMENT for that coverage by the Fed. Since when is it a conservative notion to institute single payer? You can still get coverage the honest way…by buying it. There are plenty of “Poor” who have several pairs of air jordans, cars, drugs, etc, but claim they CAN’T buy their insurance.
I had decent coverage prior to ACA. I was over 50 and paying $248 for Blue Cross. 5K deductible. Post ACA, this jumped to $500/mo, and choices diminished. It has since jumped every year, and is likely over $700 now. I’m re-employed, so don’t need it. If you pay 8k in premiums, and another 5K deductible, you’ll need care exceeding 13K before your “Coverage” covers anything.
So, what is everyone “Losing” when ACA goes away?
If I have any extended period of unemployment again, I’ll go back to my Christian Charity – $150/mo and $500 deductible.
“I am WITH President Trump and AGAINST the “Freedom Caucus”. ”
Which automatically has to mean you were with Ryan the whole way.
@BBrad ~ I don’t mean this to get into a pissing contest between you & me … I just want to understand your motivation for the passage of this particular bill
basically allowing abortion (except on-demand; a dr’s. note is a fairly easy obtainable item), notwithstanding Mr. Tucker’s admonitions, & other examples do not give me a ‘warm & fuzzy’ over this
I’m just asking for my own enlightenment.
btw … as long as I am not forced to pay for someone’s abortion, I’m good. women have the right to screw who they want, the right to use a birth control method, the right to say ‘no’ … & the right to suffer the consequences … as long as they don’t burden my rights
Trump’s defunding of Planned Parenthood is the right start
@csteven ~ you may call a 5-times-as-much payment a ‘ratio’ … I may call it a discriminatory practice & a burden on those that paid into the system for 45 years & can be forced to pay 5 times as much. besides, many a young person wouldn’t bother w/ health insurance … unless ‘coerced’ … or on their parents insurance (how is that ‘getting young people to buy into health care’?)
so, your saying abortion IS mandated?
unless one abolishes ALL & ANY penalties & taxes, then it’ ‘government-mandated’ … all they had to do was REPEAL … not REPLACE
Can’t do a full repeal and replace without 60 votes @MolonLabe. We only have 52 votes. Hence the need to use the Budget Reconciliation process which only requires 51 votes and requires the bill to contain only budget related items.
@CSteven ~ I fully understand … unfortunately, I don’t have the same faith in the senate as you do … I don’t think they can even get to 51 … & that ship sails on April 15 (I believe)
@C. Steven – as we discussed last night on another thread, the problem is not that congress CAN’T do a full repeal – it is that they WON’T do a full repeal. EVERY item in Obamacare is obviously “budget related” because every item has some monetary cost (be it direct or indirect) to provide / administer. For anyone to say it isn’t is being dishonest.
Sen. Mike Lee says he talked to the senate parliamentarian and she had no problem with allowing the things you mentioned last night as being considered as “non-budgetary” items being considered as budgetary items (and rightly so) for purposes of budget reconciliation. Thus, it appears that the bill could be repealed in its entirety with 51 votes in the senate. Are Mike Lee and other conservatives lying about how this entire bill was put forth and how it was “framed” for public consumption? Who is the average person supposed to believe at this point?
Also, you didn’t respond to me above about the federal govt. getting out of health care altogether because the Constitution doesn’t authorize it ….. period. Where is the language in the bill that states after the process is over that the federal govt. is no longer calling the shots on health insurance in America? I’m not against some minimal regulation that may be needed, but the feds have no authority to dictate anything about how to buy, who has to buy, how much has to be paid, etc. and it has no business taking money from taxpayers to “give” to others under any circumstances including health care. Wealth redistribution by the federal government is not in the Constitution.
I realize this might not occur overnight based on the current situation, but apparently there currently is no plan for the federal government to ever stop meddling with private individuals obtaining health care. I don’t see how any true conservative that still believes that the Constitution is the ultimate “law of the land” can support any bill that allows the govt. to remain in charge of health care in perpetuity.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ,
Not much of what you mention is a deal breaker to me. As a parent of some kids that got caught in the economic collapse I thought allowing 26 year olds back on my policy was the ONLY good part of Ocare. You’ve mentioned abortion a few times. They are working towards defunding PP. That should be huge. We need to be realistic enough to realize we don’t have the votes to achieve utopia.
BUT, here’s why I’m pissed and why I defend it. They just killed Trumps momentum. There are other things to consider besides just health care. I’m a manufacturer so I’m about 1000% behind his agenda and he’s been having some great victories until now. So first of all, and this is paramount, in my opinion this Bill was a tool that could have gotten everyone 85% of what they were after. You mention your doubt about the second phase. The second phase is totally dependent on Tom Price doing what he says he will do. It’s not like it requires a vote. This was a huge missed window of opportunity and now to hear the Freedom caucus try and defend themselves on the morning talk shows, and act like there’s still an opportunity to make this happen is sickening. They lost a member of that caucus today by the way. Some guy from Texas resigned. Good for him. What chance do you think Tax reform has now. We elected Trump to implement his agenda. I see this as a major set back. And specific to health care we now need to wait half way through is first term for probably the same results. And remember, restoring our economy is dependent on fixing out of control health care costs and regulations forced on employers. Lot’s of part time help for two more years. This defeat is all the Freedom caucuses. I hope I explained my position to you.
@BBrad ~ thank you for your explanation. there isn’t much in there that I can disagree with. We both want Trump to succeed … & succeed … & succeed
I understand Phase II is the part that Sec. Price has control over … I hope much of it can still be implemented, regardless of congresscritter involvement. My problem w/ AHCA Phase 1 is I’m skeptical that it will pass the senate, regardless of the reconciliation. (I just don’t trust a whole bunch of repub senators)
IMO, Ryan was the one that failed this … he didn’t need all the freedom caucus … just a few, & couldn’t/wouldn’t/didn’t ‘seal the deal’… pathetic
although the freedom caucus isn’t blameless … they’re typical repugnicans. as I said before, you can depend on the repubs to form a circular firing squad when they are in control … no matter what, they’ll find a way to phuck it up
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ,
Right now I don’t trust any of them. John Boehner might be right.
Brad, among the things I agree with you on, and in a big way, is that this affects Trump momentum. This was a media fail on his part, but he is getting a lot done and is only getting started. A temporary setback.
Joe,
There’s blood in the water. Gorsuch has a really good chance of going down as Turtle boy watches it happen. Turtle boy has already said no tax cuts this year. We need to replace EVERY Rebublican up there.
Gorsuch going down? I would be shocked. I expect Trump to play this masterfully and come out strong. It’s a shame obamacare repeal has been handled so poorly. I bet you or I would have done better.
Joe, Turtle boy needs to pull the nuclear option. They’ve already said they will filibuster.
We need to play to win, Both Ryan and McConnell are losers. Who is ready to step up?
Joe, Well, lol, in light of recent event I withdraw my nomination of Rand Paul.
The bench is thin. It’s time for some stars to step up.
Joe, I predict lots of new faces in 2 years.
Remember it was just a short time ago that the Freedom Caucus gave us Paul Ryan as speaker.
IMO, the whole mess started with this-pregnant Mexican nationals hopping the border to have their very own anchor babies, subsequent unchecked invasion, the eventual breakdown of our health care system, leading to that sham of a remedy we call obamacare.
Hate to say it, but this started on Ronnie’s watch.
IMO, the whole mess started with this-pregnant Mexican nationals hopping the border to have their very own anchor babies, subsequent unchecked invasion, the eventual breakdown of our health care system, leading to that sham of a remedy we call obamacare.
Hate to say it, but this started on Ronnie’s watch. https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html.
>>>>>We have the situation now that many people have swallowed the notion that repealing the ACA is somehow “Taking away Coverage” for many people. IT ISN’T taking away coverage… It’s taking away THE GIFT of PAYMENT for that coverage by the Fed. Since when is it a conservative notion to institute single payer? You can still get coverage the honest way…by buying it. There are plenty of “Poor” who have several pairs of air jordans, cars, drugs, etc, but claim they CAN’T buy their insurance.>>>>>>> -Nobama
Freedom Caucus! Trump and Bannon played a very dangerous game, close to the edge of the board — but they won.
Ryan’s bill, crafted by the insurance industry was crap. Probably, at least, Part III would never have happened.
Now, as we near the implosion of Obamacare, Dems will come on board and a genuine replacement can be crafted.
Best of all, Bannon wants Ryan out of the Speaker’s chair by April — and we have only one week to go. ….Lady in Red
I’m not too happy with any of them right now. I would be happy if Trump would have said to send me the last repeal bill that you sent to Obama, I’ll sign then we can clean up this mess. Hearing a politician tell about what we are going to do in phase 2, then in phase 3, rings so hollow to me they shouldn’t have even wasted their breathe.
Freedom Caucus! I will never support a “secret” bill from any party. Throw it out and start over.
He sides with the Freedom Caucus, as well. This is a game, ffs, to force everyone to get aboard. That’s why he’s also gone after Dems. Be patient.
This choice is not a good one, Paul “rattlesnake” Ryan is the biggest loser. He was able to keep his no accomplishment career intact.
Trump comes out of this, in my opinion, unscathed politically, if people just refer to what he said.
He said Obamacare would collapse whether he did something or not.
As Page O’Turner keeps shouting in the wilderness, everyone is focusing on INSURANCE when they should be focusing on medical costs.
It’s two different things and medical costs are being ignored.
False choice, as Zeroh notes above. If I have to pick, I’ll side with the FC over the Rs any day of the week.
The losers here are the Rs in general and Ryan in particular.
Thank you Rand Paul! That shit sandwich Paul Ryan wanted, stunk and would have failed, leaving the blame on Trump. Obamacare is still Obama and Pelosi’s crap sandwich now.
Now it’s time to move on (without Ryan) and get it right.
Ryan lost me when he refused to stand up to that dip-shit Biden’s bad behavior in their vice- presidential debate.
This is all just so much sausage being made.
Going down in flames is not the end of the world.
Trying to do it on the anniversary was stupid.
Pick up where you left off and then (horrors) invite the Democrats in to help with it and DO YOUR FOOKING JOBS!
Work until you can work no more.
Papa Trump will not babysit these assholes forever.
Trump, I made less than one minute. Let’s get to WORK? That ship has sailed. To late. You missed the window idiot. The Republicans are the Obstructionist party, they even obstruct themselves. They play a percentage game, meaning 99.9% of the population falls for there Bull Shit. I was a big Rand Paul fan, even posted some nice things about him here. Thanks to Steven Tucker I learn that all that bull shit about him not being able to read the Bill was Bull Shit. Theater. We need to vote everyone of these bastards out and replace them with non attorney business men. The Media enables them to play this game. I’m beginning to really buy into this Uni Party Angle.
I’m not sure why, or what game Trump is playing. but it’s hard to believe he wanted his name attached to this polished turd of Ryan’s.
if the Freedom Caucus didn’t stand up & fight we’d have Obamacare Lite w/ more chicanery-to-come from the senate rinos
So, Do You Side With Freedom Caucus, or Trump?
Freedom Caucus. Trump in the end will get what he wants, be patient people. It’s the Art of the Deal.
I’m just really curious how many people here knew what was in that legislation. I’m also curious how many people here realize a repeal was impossible. They didn’t have the votes even under reconciliation. They had to remove the “Repeal” clause to pick up the Medicaid Fours vote. This entire thing sucks and Trump will never be able to get anything through that swamp. I hope if Trump runs into this more time he steps down. What’s the point?
BOTH.
My intuition tells me Trump’s “support” of Ryan/Ryan’s Bill was a head fake (think: Mafia kiss of death), so he can achieve later something closer to what he wants/promised.
The Koch-supported “Freedom Caucus” was right in saying no to this GOPe abomination, which would have only conveyed OWNERSHIP of ALL OF ObamaCare’s NEGATIVES from the Dems to TRUMP and REPUBLICANS.
The Koch-supported “Freedom Caucus”
The Globalist Trump Hating Koch brothers threatened to pull any financial support from anyone that voted for this Bill. Do you think the Koch brothers had Americas best interest at heart or their own?
This is like asking me who won the game at the bottom of the first inning.
Freedom Caucus and Trump. They are not exclusive. FC was only doing what they promised their constituents. So is President Trump.
Paul Ryan is only doing what profits him.
I don’t trust anyone that says, “I’ll only put it in halfway. Trust me.” After Phase 1 was passed, we would never have seen anything else.
Two interesting articles related to this
http://www.arnoldkling.com/blog/the-cultural-roots-of-americas-health-care-policy-mess/
and
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2017/03/23/the-worlds-most-inefficient-healthcare-system-part-ii-created-by-government-financed-by-government/
Found at Maggie’s Farm
I don’t care if full repeal was possible or not. It would have gone thru the House, if it came apart in the Senate, so be it. I’m not impressed with political gamesmanship but if the libs would have been on record blocking this it would not have benefited them. Instead we have paul ryan looking like the inept rino that he is. And as I have said, we have plenty of other problems that we can deal with, let this collapse on its own.
TO Bad_Brad
I don’t disagree with your skepticism of the Kochs.
In the sense that, unlike rejecting almost ALL that Obama/Dems stand for,
I still think those Caucus members were right to reject this bill…
(in spite of what you or I may agree/disagree with that the Kochs support).
What is VERY clear is that neither side made their case to the public and the public doesn’t trust congress critters to be truthful. When in doubt, settle for the devil you know than the unicorn a politician is promising.
The deal was REPEAL. Ryan did a lousy job of selling his position to the American voter.
I don’t trust any one of them until they actually follow through on their campaign pledges – including Obamacare. The bill under consideration did not measure up to their rhetoric. I trust all of them even less today.
By the way – the bill all Republicans voted for in 2015 to repeal Obamacare was introduced on March 8 by Jim Jordan and is sitting in committee.
You have to ask yourself WHY Ryan didn’t lead with that. How could any Republican explain to their constituents why, when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama they voted “yes” but when they knew Trump would sign it they voted “no”.
The bill provides for 2 years to unwind Obamacare so no one can claim they’re dumping people to die in the street.
As far as I’m concerned the government should stay out of all our business that does not concern our borders, roads, or national security. Everything else could be better off if left to private enterprise.
“The bill provides for 2 years to unwind Obamacare so no one can claim they’re dumping people to die in the street.”
Gee, that sounds familiar.
Everyone should read the links Czar posted – especially the second one. @Czar – I’m a sucker for anything with a Milton Friedman video.
Page,
“You have to ask yourself WHY Ryan didn’t lead with that. How could any Republican explain to their constituents why, when they knew it would be vetoed by Obama they voted “yes” but when they knew Trump would sign it they voted “no”.
Because the Rs don’t actually want to be rid of the power structure created by Obamacare. They’d rather keep it and have it fall BACK into the hands of Leftists when they take power again (and they will) instead of destroying it.
I think President Trump walked away from a bad deal. He’ll be back
Trump never should have picked Paul Ryan in his Final Four bracket…
You don’t run on a repeal them replace platform then try to shove a Paul Ryan Bill down our throat . I trust Paul Ryan as much as I trust Nancy Pelosi. I don’t necessarily think this hurts trump it just gives the media more ammo.
Trump is clean on this one. All the Prez does is sign (or not) what Congress brings to him.
And if you vote 60 times to repeal under Obama and 0 pounder under a president who would actually sign this bill then it really it’s time to drain this swamp
It all really doesn’t matter.
The 9th Circus would have found whatever passed to be unconstitutional.
Sad.
But I side with FC, up to a point.
Repeal, THEN replace. If needed.
In the end Freedom Caucus, Trump and the people Win.
Czar,
Listen to this Jack Ass from this morning. Keep in mind if he would have voted for ANY version, the Kotch Brothers would have pulled all their money away from him. It’s a freaken bad joke and we are the losers.
http://therightscoop.com/it-makes-no-sense-to-devote-17-legislative-days-to-a-bill-then-walk-away-mike-lee/
i side with Trump, because Trump knows a whole lot more than he is letting on.
dumb like a fox
@BBrad ~ I’m curious. why are you so vociferously defending the passage of this particular pile of excrement?
I get the feeling that you don’t care what was passed, just so Trump gets something in the ‘win’ column. no matter how much ketchup you put on it, a shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich
corrections on my assumptions are always welcome
I didn’t get why the rush? What’s the hurry? Why not spend some time laying out the particulars to the American people of the good bad and ugly of new bill vs the old bill. Do health insurance rallies and sell it. This seemed very cloak and daggerish so I was instantly suspect of what they were doing.
I like how Trump summarized the bill going down in flames- and put it back on the Dems.
The repeal needs better “optics” dare I say that.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Do you know what was in that Bill and how it worked? Yes or no.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
If you stick to the FACTS, it was the only shot we had at sneaking something thru that had an impact. We missed a huge opportunity. Tell me where I’m wrong.
Another neat perspective from Vox Day on the subject
(including link to Scott Adams’ “Trump-Is-No-Longer-Hitler!” article)
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/03/trust-god-emperor.html
“I didn’t get why the rush? What’s the hurry?”
You do realize Reconsideration window closes in May. After that the need 8 or 9 more votes than they need now. Which they have no hope of getting.
Reconciliation.
The Republicans had seven years to perfect the proposed bill (at the same time Boehner and Ryan and the RINOs they led voted with Obama to fund Obamacare).
Ryan knew after the election it was a key issue Trump wanted done.
He knew the time frame, he knew of the objections, he knew what Trump wanted and he knew what the voters wanted.
Why did Ryan ignore all the signs of defeat? Arrogance or foolishness?
To err is human, but to persevere in error is only the act of a fool.
Marcus Tullius Cicero
I am WITH President Trump and AGAINST the “Freedom Caucus”. Unless of course ANY Conservative can tell me what they disagreed with in the bill. I address this question to the VERY few Conservatives who actually read the bill.
What if anything in the American Health Care Act did you disagree with and if so why?
1.) Repealing the Individual Mandate which requires those who do not purchase overpriced Obamacare health insurance to pay a penalty to the IRS.
2.) Repealing the Employer Mandate so that employers can once again offer FULL TIME jobs instead of restricting their job applicants to 29.5 hours in order to avoid paying for overpriced health Obamacare health insurance.
3.) Repealing the Obamacare subsidies, which would be the first time in U.S. history that we actually repealed an entitlement.
4.) Placing per capita caps on Medicaid enrollees.
5.) Block granting Medicaid to the states.
6.) Reducing the deficit
7.) Cutting spending by $1.2 trillion
8.) Repealing $600 billion in Obamacare TAXES
9.) Re-creating state High Risk Health insurance pools (which is how health insurance risk in the individual marketplace it was managed for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law)so that we can once again removed the sickest 5% (responsible for 50% of costs) from the healthy pool in order to once again lower premiums for those who are healthy. Remember how much lower health insurance premiums were BEFORE Obamacare?
10.) Granting $100 billion over 9 years to the states to ensure that every state has a well funded high risk health insurance pool so that the 5% who are the sickest are guaranteed coverage. Keep in mind that whilst that may seem like a lot of money, it is MUCH less than the $54 billion we will spend just THIS YEAR on Obamacare subsidies.
11.) Repealing Community Rating so that young people pay much less for health insurance than they do now, thereby reincentivizing them to REENTER the health insurance pool and lower costs for everyone.
12.) Providing tax CREDITS (not “subsidies” or “entitlements”) so that you can KEEP more of your OWN money so that health insurance costs less for your and your family.
13.) A one year 30% underwriting load applied to those who do not keep consistent health insurance coverage and instead wait until they are sick to buy health insurance, thereby increasing premiums for everyone. This also was how risk was managed in the individual health insurance market for 20 years before Obamacare under HIPAA law.
Keep in mind that ALL of the aforementioned features of the “First phase” of the American Health Care Act were included in the budget reconciliation bill and would have passed the muster of the Senate Parliamentarian because they were all budgetary in nature. As such, they could have passed with only 51 Republican votes (not the normal 60 votes to pass a bill). In other words without the help of ONE Democrat. As a reminder we need 8 Democrat Senator’s to vote WITH US in the Senate in order to reach the 60 vote threshold for a FULL repeal bill. We don’t have ONE Democrat vote, let alone EIGHT.
Let’s say PHASE TWO “would never really happen” meaning Dr. Price just simply refuses to exercise his power as our new H.H.S. Director and REFUSES to roll back additional mandates and regulations on health insurers thereby lowering premiums even more.
Let’s say “PHASE THREE” (further legislation) “would never really happen” because we will never get 8 Democrats to agree on repealing the rest of Obamacare by reaching the 60 vote threshold. Which by the way I find hard to believe after we STARVE Obamacare of it’s primary funding sources which would have been done in ‘phase 1’ (Individual and Employer mandate repeal, and repeal of $600 billion in taxes) which would result in Obamacare dying MUCH faster and resulting in more willingness for Democrats to support an alternative.
ISN’T JUST PHASE ONE BETTER THAN WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE NOW WHICH IS A DISFUNCTIONAL BANKRUPT MEDICAID PROGRAM? AN ALMOST NONEXISTANT INDIVIDUAL HEALTH INSURANCE MARKET AND THE HIGHEST HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS IN AMERICAN HISTORY?
Someone PLEASE tell me where I’m wrong. I’ll wait…
And Phase Three would have been one hell of a transparent vote. Sticking it right back on the Democrats.
@C. Steven – the biggest problem I see with your analysis is that the federal government is still “in charge” of health care, stealing taxpayer dollars and doling them out as bureaucrats see fit on something the Constitution provides the federal govt. with no authority to be involved in at all.
Most of the people speaking out in favor of this bill seem to be starting with the misguided notion that government SHOULD be in charge of health care. I disagree with the general principle of the whole idea.
@BBrad ~ you didn’t answer my question
… & yes, I did read the bill … nothing more than Obolacare Lite IMO…. States could still give Medicaid to illegal aliens, no tax credits for out-of-pocket expenses, Insurance companies could charge older payers 5 times higher than younger payers (not like Obozocare, which only overcharges them 3 times higher), same silly 26 year-olds on their parent’s insurance, same old pre-existing conditions, private plans still make everyone pay for maternity services, breast exams, pre-natal care, etc., & abortions are still paid for ‘in the health of the mother’
government-mandated health care is enslavement any way you cut it
What we don’t know about “RyanCare” far outweighs what we know. I do know that Paul Ryan is in way over his head. He hates Trump and always will. Better to walk away from a Turkey Buzzard than bring it home to mamma.
I’m with Claudia.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Please refer to phase 2. And most of what you listed is not accurate.
@Bubba’ Brother ~ NAILED IT!
@BBrad ~ ‘inaccurate’? … really???
where did I read this? … oh yeah, Section 103 (right in the beginning!)
clinics can provide abortions
“(I) if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest; or
(II) in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself”
… should I go on?
… & ‘phase 2’ is a pipe-dream … as Mr. Tucker says “let’s say…. “
… & you still didn’t answer my question
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I’ll be back with you in a couple hours. Working today.
@CStevenT I wish you were out there explaining it. Rush got on board with step by step of the bill on the day of the vote if I recall correctly. The way it was presented was terrible. Like it’s needs a redo like the immigration pause. I don’t know. It’s disheartening regardless. I remember way back as twentysomthing I had a policy for $38 a month and I shopped around for it. It’s stupid we can’t get back to that…
As I understand it, Steve Bannon hammered-out a compromise with the freedom caucus that made the bill acceptable to them, but then he lost the Medicaid Four. So I choose trump AND the Freedom Caucus.
Part of the swamp is on the right, engulfing speaker Ryan. I say suck this swamp dry of the many money influences that our politicians are exposed too. That will drain the swamp at its source fountain…
The primary problems with this bill were guaranteed issue and utilizing credits rather than deduction. Credits are a giant Invitation to illegals. Granting giant credits means the Fed is essentially buying your policy.
The Koch Bros AND Paul Ryan-o along with his NeoCon/Corporatist fellow “Republicans,” should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER be trusted or worked with.
Kill it with 🔥 🔥 🔥.
@Illustr8r I know RIGHT? Rush waits to the DAY OF THE VOTE to begin explaining it? WHAT THE HELL?!! Maddening!
MolonLabe, returning to a 5 to 1 ratio instead of a 3 to 1 ratio is a GOOD thing. 3 to 1 is referred to as “Community Rating”. It FAILED in 12 states before the Obama adminstration made it a federal statute under Obamacare. By forcing insurers to charge older people no more than 3 times what they charge younger people, you end up driving UP premiums for younger people exponentially and that in results drive them OUT of the risk pool. We NEED young and healthy people back IN the risk pool. Be reverting BACK to a 5 to 1 ratio, younger people will pay much less for health insurance because the insurance company can now charge older people up to 5 times what they charge younger people, this means that younger people will have much lower premiums. In other words, the BASE premium (which is where young people’s premiums are is much smaller). This I believe was one of the most commonly misunderstood portions of the AHCA.
Also MolonLabe, that exemption wording for Abortion ‘To save the life of the mother (and victims of rape and incest) is part of the Hyde amendment which was a bi partisan piece of legislation ensuring that women in those aforementioned situations would not be barred from receiving an abortion. To repeal that would take 60 votes and there is no way in hell that would ever happen because the Hyde amendment has been supported by both parties for many years and there is ZERO political will to repeal it.
@MolonLabe, Lastly, there is no ‘government mandated health care’. No one was forced to buy ANYTHING and because the AHCA allowed employers and individuals to once again purchase health insurance that does not cover abortions (other than those situations referred to in the Hyde amendment) more religious freedom was granted to Americans, not less.
Freedom of choice seems to only apply when you choose an abortion……not healthcare. Free Enterprise is no longer an option in Government run healthcare.
Congress fixing problems they created by BIGGER Government.
Fools.
I’m with Trump all the way, except I won’t let him grab my cat.
I have discussed obamanocare with several physicians. They say it has ruined health care.
I think Phase II would have happened. There is only one person required. There would be lawsuits, but there will anyway. Phase III is highly unlikely. Unrecognized is that as you repeal different sections of the ACA, the control of “The Secretary” where it might be mentioned in that part of the legislation, would also be gone. I perused Price’s published health plan a few months ago. I really like the portion where individuals have a plan with their physician – that completely cuts out the insurance industry. That looks like a big winner, and I’m sure he would be motivated to institute that in any way he could. Twila Brase discussed these same ideas in The Wedge health plan.
We have the situation now that many people have swallowed the notion that repealing the ACA is somehow “Taking away Coverage” for many people. IT ISN’T taking away coverage… It’s taking away THE GIFT of PAYMENT for that coverage by the Fed. Since when is it a conservative notion to institute single payer? You can still get coverage the honest way…by buying it. There are plenty of “Poor” who have several pairs of air jordans, cars, drugs, etc, but claim they CAN’T buy their insurance.
I had decent coverage prior to ACA. I was over 50 and paying $248 for Blue Cross. 5K deductible. Post ACA, this jumped to $500/mo, and choices diminished. It has since jumped every year, and is likely over $700 now. I’m re-employed, so don’t need it. If you pay 8k in premiums, and another 5K deductible, you’ll need care exceeding 13K before your “Coverage” covers anything.
So, what is everyone “Losing” when ACA goes away?
If I have any extended period of unemployment again, I’ll go back to my Christian Charity – $150/mo and $500 deductible.
“I am WITH President Trump and AGAINST the “Freedom Caucus”. ”
Which automatically has to mean you were with Ryan the whole way.
@BBrad ~ I don’t mean this to get into a pissing contest between you & me … I just want to understand your motivation for the passage of this particular bill
basically allowing abortion (except on-demand; a dr’s. note is a fairly easy obtainable item), notwithstanding Mr. Tucker’s admonitions, & other examples do not give me a ‘warm & fuzzy’ over this
I’m just asking for my own enlightenment.
btw … as long as I am not forced to pay for someone’s abortion, I’m good. women have the right to screw who they want, the right to use a birth control method, the right to say ‘no’ … & the right to suffer the consequences … as long as they don’t burden my rights
Trump’s defunding of Planned Parenthood is the right start
@csteven ~ you may call a 5-times-as-much payment a ‘ratio’ … I may call it a discriminatory practice & a burden on those that paid into the system for 45 years & can be forced to pay 5 times as much. besides, many a young person wouldn’t bother w/ health insurance … unless ‘coerced’ … or on their parents insurance (how is that ‘getting young people to buy into health care’?)
so, your saying abortion IS mandated?
unless one abolishes ALL & ANY penalties & taxes, then it’ ‘government-mandated’ … all they had to do was REPEAL … not REPLACE
Can’t do a full repeal and replace without 60 votes @MolonLabe. We only have 52 votes. Hence the need to use the Budget Reconciliation process which only requires 51 votes and requires the bill to contain only budget related items.
@CSteven ~ I fully understand … unfortunately, I don’t have the same faith in the senate as you do … I don’t think they can even get to 51 … & that ship sails on April 15 (I believe)
@C. Steven – as we discussed last night on another thread, the problem is not that congress CAN’T do a full repeal – it is that they WON’T do a full repeal. EVERY item in Obamacare is obviously “budget related” because every item has some monetary cost (be it direct or indirect) to provide / administer. For anyone to say it isn’t is being dishonest.
Sen. Mike Lee says he talked to the senate parliamentarian and she had no problem with allowing the things you mentioned last night as being considered as “non-budgetary” items being considered as budgetary items (and rightly so) for purposes of budget reconciliation. Thus, it appears that the bill could be repealed in its entirety with 51 votes in the senate. Are Mike Lee and other conservatives lying about how this entire bill was put forth and how it was “framed” for public consumption? Who is the average person supposed to believe at this point?
Also, you didn’t respond to me above about the federal govt. getting out of health care altogether because the Constitution doesn’t authorize it ….. period. Where is the language in the bill that states after the process is over that the federal govt. is no longer calling the shots on health insurance in America? I’m not against some minimal regulation that may be needed, but the feds have no authority to dictate anything about how to buy, who has to buy, how much has to be paid, etc. and it has no business taking money from taxpayers to “give” to others under any circumstances including health care. Wealth redistribution by the federal government is not in the Constitution.
I realize this might not occur overnight based on the current situation, but apparently there currently is no plan for the federal government to ever stop meddling with private individuals obtaining health care. I don’t see how any true conservative that still believes that the Constitution is the ultimate “law of the land” can support any bill that allows the govt. to remain in charge of health care in perpetuity.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ,
Not much of what you mention is a deal breaker to me. As a parent of some kids that got caught in the economic collapse I thought allowing 26 year olds back on my policy was the ONLY good part of Ocare. You’ve mentioned abortion a few times. They are working towards defunding PP. That should be huge. We need to be realistic enough to realize we don’t have the votes to achieve utopia.
BUT, here’s why I’m pissed and why I defend it. They just killed Trumps momentum. There are other things to consider besides just health care. I’m a manufacturer so I’m about 1000% behind his agenda and he’s been having some great victories until now. So first of all, and this is paramount, in my opinion this Bill was a tool that could have gotten everyone 85% of what they were after. You mention your doubt about the second phase. The second phase is totally dependent on Tom Price doing what he says he will do. It’s not like it requires a vote. This was a huge missed window of opportunity and now to hear the Freedom caucus try and defend themselves on the morning talk shows, and act like there’s still an opportunity to make this happen is sickening. They lost a member of that caucus today by the way. Some guy from Texas resigned. Good for him. What chance do you think Tax reform has now. We elected Trump to implement his agenda. I see this as a major set back. And specific to health care we now need to wait half way through is first term for probably the same results. And remember, restoring our economy is dependent on fixing out of control health care costs and regulations forced on employers. Lot’s of part time help for two more years. This defeat is all the Freedom caucuses. I hope I explained my position to you.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Ted-Poe-quits-Freedom-Caucus-healthcare/2017/03/26/id/780849/
@BBrad ~ thank you for your explanation. there isn’t much in there that I can disagree with. We both want Trump to succeed … & succeed … & succeed
I understand Phase II is the part that Sec. Price has control over … I hope much of it can still be implemented, regardless of congresscritter involvement. My problem w/ AHCA Phase 1 is I’m skeptical that it will pass the senate, regardless of the reconciliation. (I just don’t trust a whole bunch of repub senators)
IMO, Ryan was the one that failed this … he didn’t need all the freedom caucus … just a few, & couldn’t/wouldn’t/didn’t ‘seal the deal’… pathetic
although the freedom caucus isn’t blameless … they’re typical repugnicans. as I said before, you can depend on the repubs to form a circular firing squad when they are in control … no matter what, they’ll find a way to phuck it up
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ,
Right now I don’t trust any of them. John Boehner might be right.
Brad, among the things I agree with you on, and in a big way, is that this affects Trump momentum. This was a media fail on his part, but he is getting a lot done and is only getting started. A temporary setback.
Joe,
There’s blood in the water. Gorsuch has a really good chance of going down as Turtle boy watches it happen. Turtle boy has already said no tax cuts this year. We need to replace EVERY Rebublican up there.
Gorsuch going down? I would be shocked. I expect Trump to play this masterfully and come out strong. It’s a shame obamacare repeal has been handled so poorly. I bet you or I would have done better.
Joe, Turtle boy needs to pull the nuclear option. They’ve already said they will filibuster.
We need to play to win, Both Ryan and McConnell are losers. Who is ready to step up?
Joe, Well, lol, in light of recent event I withdraw my nomination of Rand Paul.
The bench is thin. It’s time for some stars to step up.
Joe, I predict lots of new faces in 2 years.
Remember it was just a short time ago that the Freedom Caucus gave us Paul Ryan as speaker.
IMO, the whole mess started with this-pregnant Mexican nationals hopping the border to have their very own anchor babies, subsequent unchecked invasion, the eventual breakdown of our health care system, leading to that sham of a remedy we call obamacare.
Hate to say it, but this started on Ronnie’s watch.
IMO, the whole mess started with this-pregnant Mexican nationals hopping the border to have their very own anchor babies, subsequent unchecked invasion, the eventual breakdown of our health care system, leading to that sham of a remedy we call obamacare.
Hate to say it, but this started on Ronnie’s watch.
https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html.
>>>>>We have the situation now that many people have swallowed the notion that repealing the ACA is somehow “Taking away Coverage” for many people. IT ISN’T taking away coverage… It’s taking away THE GIFT of PAYMENT for that coverage by the Fed. Since when is it a conservative notion to institute single payer? You can still get coverage the honest way…by buying it. There are plenty of “Poor” who have several pairs of air jordans, cars, drugs, etc, but claim they CAN’T buy their insurance.>>>>>>> -Nobama
Just wanted to reiterate this good point.